Would you be okay with being the pet of a member of a species with superior intelligence?

TheMightyAnonym

"You are still a slave. Luxuries cannot make up for your loss of freedom.

This
topic scares me. The fact that you people would readily give up the
freedom promised to us by God is horrendously disturbing."

Freedom is simply the ability to make a bad decision and not actually go through with it.

*resists urge to summon Eliezer Yudkowsky*

Let's say that you are in a room with 5 doors. 1 door leads home, the others lead to horrific death traps. Aren't you glad that those doors are there? They are extra dimensions of freedom, after all.

That said, even free will is something of an illusion, as we really only *see* ourselves in our mind's eyeas being able to slam our toes in a door, but we NEVER ACTUALLY WILL DO IT (unless of course you are out to prove me wrong).

A good life is a good life, regardless of whether or not we can actually go out and die in a freak bungee jumping accident.

And further still, consider the ever cliched starving child in Africa. As it has been said, someone who is hungry is not free. And the same can be extended to other scenarios, until you realize just how terrifyingly blurry the line is.

And lastly, notice that being a servant of God means to *freely* sacrifice much of your freedom. Your freedom exists to not be used, as strange as that may sound. Admittedly, there is inherent value in having to make choices, but that value is subjective and not everything.

DYRE

There are no benefits to slavery.

We're guaranteed to have at least a decent standard of living (actually, since the species is significantly more advanced than us, it's probably a much higher standard than a person would normally be able to achieve on their own) for free.

Seems like benefits to me.

Chagen

"We're guaranteed to have at least a decent standard of living (actually, since the species is significantly more advanced than us, it's probably a much higher standard than a person would normally be able to achieve on their own) for free."

You are being owned.

I don't know how much I have to say this before it sticks.

I would rather kill myself in such a situation. Better to die with honor than live a paltry existence, my god-given rights stripped from me and my very humanity torn from me, leaving nothing but a shallow mockery--a travesty--of life behind.

Counterclock

I wonder how many stray and feral dogs thought about how they'd never join the life of a domesticated animal.

How did those dogs end up again by the way?

TheMightyAnonym

"A hungry man is not a free man"

Chagen

There's a large fucking difference between a dog and a human, Counter.

Counterclock

^^ But Gorden Freeman is hungry all the Time.

Gelzo

Chagen strikes me as being unimaginative here.

It's easily conceivable that there's no way to resist that doesn't meet with death, or disobedience means an excruciating shock.

Lack of freedom isn't ideal, but I don't see what's crazy about not wanting to commit suicide if you can't have as much freedom as you'd like.

WOW, so much fucking melodrama.

TheMightyAnonym

Young children have inferior common sense, wisdom, and what else have you than adults (generally speaking). Hence, I'm sure that the relationship would be akin to thus.

Chagen

"It's easily conceivable that there's no way to resist that doesn't meet with death, or disobedience means an excruciating shock.
"

Then I will fight. I will fight in battle, and it be far better to die in the front lines and suffer in the name of freedom than live as a slave.

┻━┻ ︵ ヽ(`Д´）╯︵ ┻━┻

"A hungry man is not a free man"

Wait, did someone (aside from you) actually say this?

DYRE

^ Adlai Stevenson.

Apparently.

Counterclock

"There's a large fucking difference between a dog and a human, Counter."

Oh, of course there is, and those differences are comparable to the differences between us and the Species that wants us as pets.

Chagen

"Oh, of course there is, and those differences are comparable to the differences between us and the Species that wants us as pets. "

No. There isn't, and to imply such is disgusting. It's abhorrent, repugant.

Gelzo

I don't see what the glory of suicide is here.

Chagen

I would rather die a free man than live a slave.

It's not that difficult to get.

Counterclock

Do you feel pets are slaves Chagen?

Chagen

Oh for fucks sake.

Pets are not sapient.

Stormtroper

No. There isn't

Yes. There is. That's the hypothesis.

Gelzo

Goddammit, Chagen, your style of argument is really pissing me off. You need to stop being so dramatic and emotional about this. It's just a hypothetical, and it's really best for all of us if you at least try considering the other side.

You're talking in platitudes and acting like we're idiots when we can't get a better grasp on your position. Sure, I don't think loss of freedom is good, but when you're being so fucking resolute about keeping it, you need a better explanation for why you'd rather die than "HERP IT'S REALLY REALLY BAD IF I DON'T HAVE IT"

TheMightyAnonym

(I bet I've been ninjad like fifty times)

There actually are a couple of important distinctions between us and animals, which are irreconcilable for comparing us to a superior race.

Specifically, we:

*Are the lens that can see its own flaws. We constantly strive to imporve ourselves, harvest knowledge, and ponder things that are 100% imponderable by dogs. Philosophy, science, and what else have you are beyond the reach of all animals presently known to man, with the exception of monkeys that can do basic math. Any superior race will simply have more advanced versions of these, which while beyond our understanding, are at least still something that we can look at and say "yep, those are mathematics". Although, granted, some bizarre field that we have never though of might exist, but I doubt that there is much outside of the main branches of study.
*Are a species that can communicate with higher speech functions. We can form sentences and the like, specifically. A higher species may be able to communicate by some method that is higher still, but it will nonetheless be nothing at all comparable to sentences VS barking.

Chagen

Gelzo, if you cannot see why loss of freedom is horrible, then I don't think any explination will convince you.

Gelzo

If you can't explain WHY loss of freedom is horrible, then you're holding a belief- however valid it may be- with no proper justification.

Counterclock

^ This, So much.

Hatter

If I got to do my own projects, socialize with other humans and do all the other things I love, sure, why not. 

Bonus points if there's forced breeding. Delicious, delicious forced breeding.

TheMightyAnonym

@Chagen: Here's something to try:

Define "freedom" without using the following words:

• Freedom
• Free
• Freewill
• Choice
• Decision
• Opportunity
• Right
• God-given
• Ability
• Liberty
  

@Everyone else: Let me know if I missed a word to ban.

Gelzo

I don't see why you'd want forced breeding. There's no reason to expect you'd be paired with anyone you find attractive.

Encouraged breeding, on the other hand.

^God-given?

Forzare

So Chagen, how's the view from way up there on your high horse?

Counterclock

Ability?

Stormtroper

Liberty.