I want to join Something Awful now

CommandoDude

"Miij left tvt "

WHAT?!

Okay, well...I did too.

DarkDecapodian

Vicas posted:

alternatively just lurk until you figure out what this place is like and seriously why are we giving advice to prospective new members?

Because it is awake and it is hungry.

^ So that's, what, four of the old guard gone in the last month? Shit.

v Commando Dude, Miijhal, Shlapintogan and Bellacide.

MillerCross

Who're the other three?

Counterclock

Bellacide?

All Nines

Quoth Mr. Pumroy:

"Sometimes I feel that the culture of the SA forums might elude the casual observer, and that leads to confusion over what is and is not taboo here. The fact is that a "starter" membership is under high risk of being banned. These are furtive, nervous members. Their every movement is watched by those who purchased higher tier memberships and their suffering is sport for us. They represent the "10 bux" demographic, and they can be banned for all manner of things, up to and including arbitrary rules that did not exist until a mod decides they are in a banning mood. They are never not in a banning mood. These low tier goons can often escape bans if they obey a mod's demands to caper and dance for the amusement of others, but typically even then they will still be banned, their account sent into the howling vortex wilderness of the internet beyond."

o_o;

Uh, yeah. I'm not sure if I can get my mom to allow me to fork over twenty of my dollars for a site that might challenge me to fuck a flask if one of the mods gets bored. I can see that there's a good reason to pay for the site, but twenty dollars for extra protection might be a little out of my reach. And I'm not sure if SA would want a jobless, licenseless, pussy teenager anyway.

Quoth Shlapintogan:

"Mod challenges are pretty wonderful. Sometimes we even have ones just because."

See, that's nice. That looks like fun. Which is making it harder for me to accept that I might not be able to get the better accounts if what Mr. Pumroy says is true. And I doubt that I can justify it to mom under the idea that I may become an envoy moderator from a site that only occasionally gets noticed by the forum I want to join.

Well played, Pumroy. Well played.

MillerCross

Pumroy is joking. That's what Pumroy does. And it is why I enjoy that thread so much. 

Malkavian

I'm really hoping the first quote is a sarcastic joke.

^Ok, Gouda.

Marioguy128

I'd love to join SA, but I'm having problems with paying for an account.

Personally, I'm thinking about leaving TVT myself, but there are a few obligations keeping me there.  The fora seems to have gotten the life sucked out of it for a long time.

ClockworkUniverse

@SA: Regarding what you've been saying about our modding: you're right; we kinda still suck at it. We're trying to work on it.

Malkavian

@SA: I'm one of the good ones, right? Oh wait, I probably don't even register on your radar.

MillerCross

I won't lie and tell you yoou guys are the greatest moderation ever, but I have to say that you have helped improve this site and have made it better than what it was a couple of months back. I'd suggest some stuff, but I'm not particularly comfortable with doing so as it is mostly user-control oriented.

DarkDecapodian

@ Counterclock: Check the Absent People thread, last page if I remember.

@ Malkavian: If you've posted in this thread, then you probably are.

Counterclock

@Malk, you just want attention? That's a good way of getting it.

Or you could go like.

Vorpy

I'm going to go on meme probation.

I have been using too many memes. I feel that I am being infected with parrot shit.

All Nines

Quoth Obligatory Toast:

"Oh and to Everest and all the other guys modding IJBM: you can either be moderators who do your goddamn jobs and enforce the rules of your forums like the mods here do, or you can be spineless and shiftless fucks like the mods at TvTropes. Now you're probably crying at this point, "but Obligatory Toast!! We're not at all like those douches!!" but the fact of the matter is, you're the other side of the same coin. They make up shit, lie, and close discussions whenever the fuck they want and delete threads. You are spineless and refuse to enforce the rules you already have because you're afraid to. That's why you have Chagen."

Well, what INUH said plays into it to a degree; the community is too small for us to have multiple mods come to a consensus at once, and we're rather hesitant to act because our rules, if enforced as written, would remove most of our userbase, which is obviously not good. So yes, we are afraid, because this community can't afford to expel someone as easily as SA, which has roughly a thousand or three times more users than us. And since most of us came from TVTropes anyway, we all know each other fairly well, which  makes it harder to ban people than if it's just some newbie jagoff asking for help on homework.

And before you commend us for finally removing Chagen: it's only a month-long ban. We're rather lenient in that we follow a three-strike system with bans. Chagen can come back at the start of school, but we'll be more inclined than ever to pound on him with our mod hammers over infractions that we would normally prefer to let slide, and this is his final chance, no questions permitted.

I know many of you won't like the fact that he can come back, but we'd like to hope that, after all this time, there's hope for rehabilitation. I'm as doubtful as you all are that Chagen will improve, but we have standards that I would like to stick to, and it doesn't entirely fall on Chagen to prevent shitstorms; it kinda takes other people to start slinging shit back, otherwise this wouldn't be such a problem.

MillerCross

Also, I wouldn't say that Commando Dude and Bellacide count as Old Guard, but that's just me, I guess.

Vorpy

How many active users do we have on here anyway?

Is there a list?

DarkDecapodian

^^ If they've been around for more than a year and I can associate their username with something, they count. Bit of a personal definition, mind.

Malkavian

For what it's worth, I don't think Chagen's a bad dude... I do think he needs some professional psychological help, though. Someone should suggest he at least spend some time with a guidance counselor once the school year starts.

MillerCross

For what it's worth, I don't think Chagen's a bad dude... I do think he needs some professional psychological help, though. Someone should suggest he at least spend some time with a guidance counselor once the school year starts.

Shut up and stop reading my thought out loud, would you

Counterclock

Psychological Help is unheard of you guys.

Nova

I think that would be for the best, but I am afraid I don't see him actually doing this.

MillerCross

yup. that's the bit that annoys me.

DarkDecapodian

Funny how reading the last few comments above caused the word 'heartsweet' to pop into my head. Old stories die hard even on the internet...

Counterclock

It follows the train of logic "This person could be nice if they got anger management"

"Unfortunately, the way they behave will probably never lead to the conclusion that they get anger management"

In which case, not much you can do.

You can try to help Chagen all you want, but it's not a glass of water that anyone else can fill but Chagen.

Marioguy128

"For what it's worth, I don't think Chagen's a bad dude... I do think he
needs some professional psychological help, though. Someone should
suggest he at least spend some time with a guidance counselor once the
school year starts."

That, and he really needs to grow up.  (Probably literally since he's somewhere around 15.)

Malkavian

I'm not disagreeing, but I can still hope he can see the light, can't I? I mean, he's still a teenager. Lot of growing up to be done.

Stormtroper

Boy, what mess did IJBM get in today?

But in any case, even were I employed I couldn't justify paying $10 to join a forum

Agreed. It's not that it's bad, because it's not, but it just doesn't seem to offer me anything I couldn't get from all the other forums on the internet, or lurking. At least, that's what I see from the outside.

Also, I wouldn't say that Commando Dude and Bellacide count as Old Guard, but that's just me, I guess.

I remember getting into a mini-argument around 7 months ago over Bellacide counting as Old Guard or not. In the end, she didn't count.

All Nines

Quoth Obligatory Toast:

"Okay, so... Everest, I also mod for a smaller site, and I will tell you right now, this is not the only time you will ever deal with someone like Chagen. If you have enough trouble dealing with him now, think about having two or three Chagens on your forum. Your forum is better off without him and people like him.

By all means, you have reason to be concerned about your userbase, but you need to think about growth, too. If you think that 90% of your users would be banned with the rules you have now, then change them. Confer with your staff about what rules you think would work for the forums and what would not. Shitcan bad rules, enforce good ones.

I mean, poo poo. If you were deflecting my criticisms instead giving me this simpering "Oh god I am not good with moderating how did get here" shit, I'd have written you off as a b-rate Fast Eddie. Don't get me wrong, it's a very good thing that you are receptive to criticism. However it is very terrible that you're just not doing anything with it. On SA, we don't cotton to "I know I suck, but," ever. You either fix your shit and we fistbump or you keep being shit and we keep making GBS threads on you."

Well, if it would help to go through the rules as written and explain why there's a problem, I will.

"0. Don't be a jerk or an idiot. Keep an open mind. This website is for discussing things."

That alone will kick this site fairly hard in the balls (sorry, guys, but there is a LOT of unpleasant stuff here). But ideally a site would be able to do that most of the time.

"1a. When creating new discussion threads, please put them in an appropriate category depending on their content."

No problem.

"1b. Threads are typically about complaining about something, but they don't have to be."

Also not a huge issue; as above, it's more of a guideline, really.

"1c. It's okay if a thread goes off-topic naturally, but do not derail it intentionally, even if you don't like the topic"

This one also happens a lot, but it should be there, should it not? It seems like basic courtesy.

"2. Discussing, debating, arguing, and disagreeing are all allowed. However, when doing these things, target the opinions and arguments, not the persons you're talking to. Insults, mockery, needlessly rude or inflammatory posts, or other irrelevant material may be edited, blanked, locked, or deleted."

Sometimes there's too much to deal with at once, but cracking down on this one would probably be roughly equivalent to punching this forum in the kidney.

All Nines

Continued from above:

"3. Do not import or export wars from/to other websites. Users who do so will be warned if not banned instantly."

It sometimes takes a while on this one, which is a problem, but last night/this morning's events show that we're willing to enforce the banning part, at least. And in fact, Chagen's first strike was for committing this offense by bitching about Fundies Say The Darndest Things.

"4a. Do not start or continue dramafests. If you have problems with other users, talk to moderators or to the users in question privately. Abuse, harrassment, and trolling (intentionally posting stuff to annoy people) are not allowed. Do not derail discussions with drama."

Another good rule, no?

I could go on if you'd like, and spread this out over even more posts, but what I think is this: The rules are sensible, but it's often a lot to ask of the users here. And if we simply pulled back a lot of these rules, things would go all to hell.

As someone who increasingly grows sick of his job, I appreciate this chance for self-evaluation. Thank you.