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Comments
I think genre is beside the point, at least in terms of instrumentation. Like I said before, a lot of video game music seems to me as though it was composed as heavy metal initially and then arranged for different instruments. This is particularly true for Japanese games, and particularly true for all 8-bit and 16-bit era games. They were working with limited harmonic space, just like a heavily overdriven or distorted guitar, so the techniques of musical expression within those limitations are identical to those found in heavy metal. While lots of old musical themes have been updated, few if any have lost that simple core, and that simple core follows the standard "rules" of heavy metal.
In particular, 8-bit games only had space for three musical tones to play at once. This is enough harmonic space to play one standard chord, but in heavy metal, one less commonly uses standard chords -- instead, it's more popular to use power chords, which are two tones (the root note and the fifth). This leaves one tone free for a melody line. So for older games, it was much more efficient in terms of expression to use either three melody lines (perhaps two treble, one bass), or power chords and a melody line.
If you want memorable, strong music, it's generally a better approach to start with this kind of simplicity and limitation. There are exceptions, such as in the case of music that's meant to contribute to an atmosphere and be almost "invisible" in its natural application, but for "active" music, you're almost always better off taking the simple approach that can then be embellished. Even today, many consider the best video game music to be modern arrangements of the old melodies of the 8-bit and 16-bit eras. That's because those old pieces had to be strong and expressive in spite of their technological and harmonic limitations. And if you successfully compose something strong under those circumstances, only to add the bells and whistles of modern technological advancements? Then you've got something that blows most other soundtracks out of the water, by far.
I would trust Icalasari's word here.
It is at least somewhat available.
Do we really wanna use something you'd need a DS emulator to play?
Those things are horrible on your computer, and a lot of the time they just plain don't work.
Nobody said anything about genre.
We were talking about tone, and whether a rock tune would fit in this context or that context.
You know, I kind of agree with Alex. I mean, I honestly think most of my best work is when I use 8-bit melodies.
Considering how much better the B/W games are than the Gen III games are? Yes.
I might be missing something here, but these two sentences seem to contradict one-another.
Well, I don't know what the hell genre means to you then...
... Oh, music genre is a different thing apparently. Blah.
I'm just saying if we do B/W's engine I'm probably going to be out by sheer necessity. I am 99% sure a DS emulator won't work on this thing. Never did on my old laptop.
So, was that post basically a nitpick/exploration of that instrumentation comment I made earlier? :V
I feel like I should say something here, but I don't even know, man.
It depends on your computer specs. Desmume runs pretty smoothly on my laptop.
Oh, so this is a ROM hack?
I wasn't under the impression that it was though.
Geez, this is confusing.
I have no idea.
Whelp, go team.
We haven't even decided on an engine.
No, we did decide to use Black/White's engine.
I'm not a programmer or anything, so I can't tell you whether it will be a ROMhack (although I assume it will be), or if the game would be designed from scratch for another program or something, or something else.
I would assume it's a ROMhack, because then most of the tools are already there, which significantly reduces the workload and probably ensures we get a lot less glitches than any other way. But I don't know.
Okay, I changed my mind, rock is A-OK.
Ground-type physical attacker with Base 100 speed and Mold Breaker
But seriously, I don't like the plot you guys have currently
I don't think Pokemon should be grim and gritty. It should have dark undertones, yes, but that's because childhoods have always had troubled and very adult secrets. Pokemon, at its core, is about the childlike sense of exploration and adventure. It isn't a SOOPER EDGIE Frank Miller-esque world where no hope is offered, nor is it an LOTR-ish struggle between good and evil. It's about growing up and finding out new things, and a big part of growing up is the unknown.
I'm all for including dark elements (maybe a disturbing 'dex entry or implying that the villainous team has committed acts of terrorism), but I think it would be best if we avoid letting them take over the story.
I do believe that point has already been raised, and that's something to be aware of once we actually decide what the plot is.
^^ Dude, we're not aiming for dark and gritty, trust me. It's not as if we're getting into anything that's that much (if at all) darker than what other Pokemon games have explored, and if it turns out that we're veering too far in that direction by accident, someone will inevitably say something.
Ah, good.
So what do you guys have so far?
I honestly don't even know what we have so far. And, now that we're apparently going to actually try to make this thing, I don't know if I want to spoil anything. >.>
But the region is based off of Australia, and one of the key plot points will involve civilization vs. natural entropy in some way, as a reference to how Australia apparently works in a dichotomy between urbanization and uninhabitable desert.
So...like most SNES RPG plots (nature vs unnatural technology)?
Or a reversal?
Well, we have a corruption caused by a Legendary that is spreading through the land.
Haha, not dark and gritty.
But no, quite seriously, the setting is based somewhat on Australia. The corruption is presented as more of a... I don't know; it's hard to describe. It's not untamed wilderness, but it is wilderness. It's sort of like hostile wilderness.
Basically, the wilderness represents one of the major features of Australian geography- the harsh dichtonomy between the temperate, liveable coastal regions of Australia and the massive desert that takes up most of the continent.
An important point to remember is that with this, we're not going for any real dark and gritty themes. We probably won't go into the nature of humanity and corruption, and all that.
Basically, the corruption in the middle is hostile to humanity, but not unliveable by any means, and it's not an undergrowth that will reach out and try to strangle you in your sleep. The Pokemon aren't evil, there's no toxic swamps, and all that jazz.
^^ Civilization versus natural entropy is actually a good way to describe it.
Um, beyond that, we have decided on another trio- a Ghost-based trio, based on the concept of fallen warriors. I think we ended up going Ghost/Steel, Ghost/Dark, and Ghost/Fighting, with the Ghost/Steel representing a knight, the Ghost/Fighting a monk, and the Ghost/Dark a (fallen?) wizard or something.
We haven't actually decided on anything beyond that. We considered having the Team of the region consist of three groups following each of the above legendaries, but we didn't decide on all that.
At the moment, we're just tossing around ideas for Pokemon, with everyone involved having been asked to toss in a portfolio with up to eight Pokemon family ideas in it in.
Considering it's a Pokemon game, I don't know if we really need to take pains to subvert/reverse/whatever that trend, if it turns out to reflect that trend. As long as the story is told well, whatever it is, I'm happy.
The growing up thing is also something that I think we need to consider through development, even if I don't entirely agree with the notion that the series doesn't deal with good vs. evil in fairly black and white (so to speak) terms.
It sounds like it would be the opposite of that anyway.
I don't have any familiarity with SNES games, let alone SNES RPG's, so I wouldn't know how these games explore that idea, honestly.
IJBM: When LOTR's morality is considered black and white.
You now return to your regular viewing.
Well, most of them present nature as the 'good' side, and unnatural technology as the 'bad' side.
Whereas this sounds like it's more of a 'hospitable nature' thing versus an 'inhospitable nature' thing.