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General writing discussion.

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Comments

  • Has friends besides tanks now
    D:

    D:

    D:
  • They're somethin' else.
    Will read soon, never fear
  • edited 2011-09-29 20:48:35
    Has friends besides tanks now
    Just a general question first, if I may: how bad is actually giving physical descriptions of characters right off the bat, as far as poor form goes? It seems like a perfectly valid way to differentiate characters.
  • They're somethin' else.
    Try to reveal it bit by bit overtime. Don't description dump. Try and hint to it either in the dialogue or the action.
  • edited 2011-09-29 21:13:44
    Has friends besides tanks now
    All right. Here's a revision for now, editing out stupid mistakes that I might have put more thought into if I wrote more frequently.

    ----

    Two girls, Cassandra Stone and Natalie Davies, sat by themselves at lunch. They leaned towards each other to allow for a hushed tone. “. . . But it’s so lame, though,” said Natalie. “Am I right?”
    “Sure, I guess,” said Cassandra. “I don’t know him, though.” She ran icy fingers along her forehead, brushing her black bangs out of her eyes and wishing she’d brought money for coffee.
    “. . . Yoohoo,” Natalie said. “Caaaaassiiiiieeee. Did you get enough sleep yesterday?”
    “Ugh. Plenty. I can’t stay up very late with that fucking moose breathing down my neck, can I?”
    “Ah, right.” Natalie sighed. “Fuckin’ hate your brother.”
    “Everyone does.” Vapid bitch, we’ve had this discussion a thousand times. Of course, Cassandra would never be so mean as to actually say that to Natalie; Natalie was much too sensitive for that. She brushed hair out of her eyes again, this time flicking it away in a quick, annoyed motion.
    “True. . . . Hey, d’ya want some coffee? You don’t look like you’ll make it to fourth block.”
    “Nah, I’m fine.” As much as she would have liked coffee, Natalie never remembered how she liked it.
    “Well, why are you so tired, then?” Natalie said.
    “I’m not tired. Just exhausted.”
    “There’s a difference?”
    Oh, for the love of Christ. “Yeah.”
    “Okay.” After that, Natalie and Cassandra just sat there for a minute, neither really knowing what to say. Cassandra even slumped forward onto the table without sitting up again. The clomping of dirty sneakers and the carefree yelling in the cafeteria became even louder (Cassandra thought she might have heard some kid say “guess who’s creeeeeepin’” in an obnoxious, freshman-y tone of voice), so that by the time Natalie thought of something to say, she nearly had to yell herself.
    Got any plans for today, Cassie?
    Cassandra groaned and pushed herself upright. “Mm, no, not really,” she said. She wiped a piece of salad out of her bangs without a thought, half-glaring at Natalie (though Natalie would never have caught on).
    “Awesome,” Natalie said. “Wanna come over to my house?”
    “Umm . . . I don’t think so. You remember what happened last time I went out without Cassius’s permission, right?” Fucking hell, Natalie.
    “. . . Right.”
    “What, are guys not enough for you anymore, Natalie?” A scrawny, short kid with messy brown hair, a “That’s What She Said” shirt, and a self-satisfied grin on his face said this as he stood behind Natalie‘s chair.
    “Fuck off, Derek,” Natalie said. “No one was talking to you.” She said this with a straight face and without glancing back at him. She sounded almost as worn out as Cassandra.
    “Really?” he said.
    “Yes, really,” Natalie said.
    “You sure?”
    Yes.
    “Nah, I don’t think so.”
    “Damn it, Derek, go away before I beat the fuck out of you.” Now Natalie was annoyed enough to turn and face him.
    “Why?” he asked.
    “Because I hate you.”
    “Why do you hate me?”
    “Because you’re a fucking douchebag.”
    “Why?” Derek said. Cassandra thought, Don’t you see what he’s doing, Natalie? You’re such an easy target. Always. “You’re so mean. Lighten up.” He attempted to pat her head, but she caught his wrist. At this point, she could have done God knows what, but she held her stony glare on him instead, still clutching his wussy little arm.
    “Derek, just leave,” Cassandra said. “You’re not adding anything to this discussion.”
    “But how am I supposed to leave if Natalie won’t let go?” Derek said.
    “Natalie, let him go,” Cassandra yawned.
    “Nah,” Natalie said. “I’ll wait for an apology.”
    “What’s to lose?” Derek said. “The sooner you let go of me, the sooner you two can go back to your bitchy slut talk.”
    Natalie sent him to the ground with a downward pull. He tried to shake out of her grip, teeth grinding, but she barely moved; she only had average strength, but the sheer difference in size between her and Derek, plus her superior leverage, subdued him. She dug her nails in and drew some blood, in plain view of about twenty people, and twice as many could hear Derek rolling around and slapping the floor with his free hand, but no one cared. Even the two teachers on lunch duty went on with their chatting, and they had turned to make sure of what was happening too. “OH FUCK STOP,” Derek said.
    Instead of stopping, Natalie stood from her chair, placed her foot between Derek’s shoulder blades, and pulled his arm back like a rusty lever. She was gritting her teeth from the effort, or perhaps from repressed frustration, and he was shrieking. Cassandra was half-asleep, with her head resting in her hands, which was unfortunate for Derek, since she could have easily convinced Natalie to release him. Thirty seconds more, and one of the teachers sighed and strolled over to the scene.
    “Natalie, if you let go of him now, I won’t suspend you,” he said. This school is a joke, Cassandra thought before nodding off. Natalie looked at the teacher, her expression softening. She let go . . . but not before snapping Derek’s elbow with a final downward jerk. His still-louder yell was cut off as he passed out.
    “As it is, you’re getting a late night detention because calling in Officer Strontham and explaining how no one saw this is gonna be a bitch.” The teacher went back to where he was, and everyone else kept eating (or sleeping) while Derek kept bleeding.
    “Hey Cassie,” Natalie said. “You still awake?”
    Cassandra rubbed her eyes open. “Mm, nooo, not quite.”
    “Well, you missed it, then,” Natalie said. “You shoulda heard the little faggot scream. I mean you literally should‘ve heard it, it was so obnoxious and loud.” Natalie got a tissue out of her purse and began wiping blood from under her fingernails. “By the way, are you sure you don’t want some coffee?”

    ----
  • They're somethin' else.
    My commentary will be in red

     
    Two
    girls, Cassandra Stone and Natalie Davies, sat by themselves at lunch.
    They leaned towards each other to allow for a hushed tone. “. . . But
    it’s so lame, though,” said Natalie. “Am I right?”
    “Sure,
    I guess,” said Cassandra. “I don’t know him, though.” She ran icy
    fingers along her forehead what made them icy? unless she's touching someone else, or you drive the point further that its cold out, you might want to spare this detail, brushing her black bangs out of her eyes and
    wishing she’d brought money for coffee.
    “. . . Yoohoo,” You usually say "yoohoo" if they're a ways off or their attention's elswhere Natalie said. “Caaaaassiiiiieeee. Did you get enough sleep yesterday?”
    “Ugh. Plenty. I can’t stay up very late with that fucking moose breathing down my neck, can I?”
    “Ah, right.” Natalie sighed. “Fuckin’ hate your brother.”
    “Everyone does.” Vapid bitch, we’ve had this discussion a thousand times. Heh, love this Of course, Cassandra would never be so mean as to actually say that to
    Natalie; Natalie was much too sensitive for that. She brushed hair out
    of her eyes again, this time flicking it away in a quick, annoyed
    motion.
    “True. . . . Hey, d’ya want some coffee? You don’t look like you’ll make it to fourth block.”
    “Nah, I’m fine.” As much as she would have liked coffee, Natalie never remembered how she liked it.
    “Well, why are you so tired, then?” Natalie said.
    “I’m not tired. Just exhausted.”
    “There’s a difference?”
    Oh, for the love of Christ. You have quite an eye for internal sarcasm “Yeah.”
    “Okay.”
    After that, Natalie and Cassandra just sat there for a minute, neither
    really knowing what to say. Cassandra even slumped forward onto the
    table without sitting up again. The clomping of dirty sneakers and the
    carefree yelling in the cafeteria became even louder (Cassandra thought
    she might have heard some kid say “guess who’s creeeeeepin’” in
    an obnoxious, freshman-y tone of voice) Odd detail. Sailed over my head, so that by the time Natalie
    thought of something to say, she nearly had to yell herself.
    Got any plans for today, Cassie?
    Cassandra
    groaned and pushed herself upright. “Mm, no, not really,” she said. She
    wiped a piece of salad out of her bangs without a thought, half-glaring
    at Natalie (though Natalie would never have caught on).
    “Awesome,” Natalie said. “Wanna come over to my house?”
    “Umm . . . I don’t think so. You remember what happened last time I went out without Cassius’s permission, right?” Fucking hell, Natalie.
    “. . . Right.”
    “What,
    are guys not enough for you anymore, Natalie?” A scrawny, short kid
    with messy brown hair, a “That’s What She Said” shirt, and a
    self-satisfied grin on his face said this as he stood behind Natalie‘s
    chair. You're info dumping again. too much in one sentence.
    “Fuck
    off, Derek,” Natalie said. “No one was talking to you.” She said this
    with a straight face and without glancing back at him. She sounded
    almost as worn out as Cassandra.
    “Really?” he said.
    “Yes, really,” Natalie said.
    “You sure?”
    Yes.
    “Nah, I don’t think so.”
    “Damn it, Derek, go away before I beat the fuck out of you.” Now Natalie was annoyed enough to turn and face him.
    “Why?” he asked.
    “Because I hate you.”
    “Why do you hate me?”
    “Because you’re a fucking douchebag.”  Glorious dialogue
    “Why?” Derek said. Cassandra thought, Don’t you see what he’s doing, Natalie? You’re such an easy target. Always.
    Uh... make a separate paragraph. don't mix input from characters in the same paragraph “You’re so mean. Lighten up.” He attempted to pat her head, but she
    caught his wrist. At this point, she could have done God knows what, but
    she held her stony glare on him instead, still clutching his wussy
    little arm.
    “Derek, just leave,” Cassandra said. “You’re not adding anything to this discussion.”
    “But how am I supposed to leave if Natalie won’t let go?” Derek said.
    “Natalie, let him go,” Cassandra yawned.
    “Nah,” Natalie said. “I’ll wait for an apology.”
    “What’s to lose?” Derek said. “The sooner you let go of me, the sooner you two can go back to your bitchy slut talk.” Again, good dialogue
    Natalie
    sent him to the ground with a downward pull. He tried to shake out of
    her grip, teeth grinding, but she barely moved; she only had average
    strength, but the sheer difference in size between her and Derek, plus
    her superior leverage, subdued him. She dug her nails in and drew some
    blood, in plain view of about twenty people, and twice as many could
    hear Derek rolling around and slapping the floor with his free hand, but
    no one cared. Even the two teachers on lunch duty went on with their
    chatting, and they had turned to make sure of what was happening too. “OH FUCK STOP,” Derek said. Paragraph break Derek's line. It'll add more power to it.
    Instead
    of stopping, Natalie stood from her chair, placed her foot between
    Derek’s shoulder blades, and pulled his arm back like a rusty lever. She
    was gritting her teeth from the effort, or perhaps from repressed
    frustration, and he was shrieking. Cassandra was half-asleep, with her
    head resting in her hands, which was unfortunate for Derek, since she
    could have easily convinced Natalie to release him This is telling, not showing. Thirty seconds more,
    and one of the teachers sighed and strolled over to the scene.
    “Natalie, if you let go of him now, I won’t suspend you,” he said. This school is a joke,
    Cassandra thought before nodding off. Natalie looked at the teacher,
    her expression softening. She let go . . . but not before snapping
    Derek’s elbow with a final downward jerk. His still-louder yell was cut
    off as he passed out.
    “As
    it is, you’re getting a late night detention because calling in Officer
    Strontham and explaining how no one saw this is gonna be a bitch.” The
    teacher went back to where he was, and everyone else kept eating (or
    sleeping) while Derek kept bleeding.
    “Hey Cassie,” Natalie said. “You still awake?”
    Cassandra rubbed her eyes open. “Mm, nooo, not quite.”
    “Well,
    you missed it, then,” Natalie said. “You shoulda heard the little
    faggot scream. I mean you literally should‘ve heard it, it was so obnoxious and
    loud.” Natalie got a tissue out of her purse and began wiping blood
    from under her fingernails. “By the way, are you sure you don’t want
    some coffee?” I'd love to see more XD
  • edited 2011-09-29 22:14:25
    Has friends besides tanks now
    "what made them icy? unless she's touching someone else, or you drive the point further that its cold out, you might want to spare this detail"

    I just wanted to point out that her hands were cold, for symbolic personality exposition or summat. I know mine are all the time.

    "You usually say "yoohoo" if they're a ways off or their attention's elswhere"

    Well, it was supposed to be showing that Cassandra's got the sleepies. Plus, Natalie's supposed to be really stupid anyway, so I'd let it slide just for that.

    "Odd detail. Sailed over my head"

    It was foreshadowing for Derek, who was creeping on Natalie and Cassandra's conversation for a while.

    "You're info dumping again. too much in one sentence."

    I was trying to drill it into the reader's head right away that Derek's an annoying little shit.

    "Glorious dialogue"

    Maybe it's just me being paranoid, but are you saying that in spite of the fact that it's supposed to annoying teenagers arguing, with one being a shitty troll? If so, I'm very glad it worked.

    "This is telling, not showing"

    Not sure how I'd show something that depends on Cassandra being awake.

    "-compliments-"

    Thanks.

    Sorry if all the justifications seem defensive, but I'm a believer in giving the rationale for my decisions before making changes.
  • They're somethin' else.
    Then, if all this is intentional, I say keep it. I'll stand by my previous and think you should spread out Derek's dipshit details throughout his screentime.
  • Has friends besides tanks now
    Probably. And I didn't respond to the comments on paragraph structure because you're right about that.
  • And 2/3s done with my story. Yayyyy.
  • Just tried a very spare writing style. How does it look?

    ---

    Vendal opened his eyes. Dark
    surroundings, very dark. Behind him to his sides, crackling fire. Torches.


    Vendal sat up in his futon. His vision
    clearing, he looked around once more. Another cave. Dim though the
    light was, basic features could be inferred. Two long passages. Low
    ceiling, smooth granite walls. No stalactites.

  • They're somethin' else.
    Sounds like a freeverse poem.
  • I'll take that as a "no".
  • They're somethin' else.
    The fragment sentences aren't all that appealing.
  • edited 2011-10-01 18:57:28

    Vendal opened his eyes. His view was dark, very dark. Behind him to his sides, he heard crackling fire. It sounded like torches.

    He sat up in his futon. Vision clearing, he looked around once more. It was another cave. Dim though the light was, basic features could be inferred. Two long passages in front, a low ceiling, and smooth granite walls. No stalactites in sight.

  • They're somethin' else.
    A little better. Dark, very dark, should have the Very Dark into another synonym.
  • There is a "let's make a harem" discussion in Writer's Block.

    At first I was mad.

    Then I found out it would be a reverse harem.

    Then I was still just as mad.
  • They're somethin' else.
    PREDICTABO
  • Has friends besides tanks now
    I have another part of Chapter 1 of "Horrible People" done, and I kinda want critique. It basically consists of an annoying rich girl flirting with the main character to a much worse degree than people usually do when (if) they're joking around. And it's mainly dialogue-driven, which is fine with me, since dialogue seems to be my strong suit.
  • AHR: I really don't see the problem.
  • I can't speak for AHR, but my main problem is that it seems more fit for Forum Games, not a serious writing subforum.

    Also, I have to agree with this guy's comment on the thread: "Why is it that these "let's make a whatever" threads are limited to anime genres?"
  • Chagen: I dislike the harem genre. Especially the way they're handling it.
  • $80+ per session
    I don't like harem as a genre, but I think the situation can be used interestingly in addition to another genre. I feel this way about romance in general.
  • You can change. You can.
    I can't speak for AHR, but my main problem is that it seems more fit for Forum Games, not a serious writing subforum.

    >Serious writing subforum
    >Writer's block

    you must be really high today, orcus.
  • $80+ per session
    That too.
  • Has friends besides tanks now
    I think harem can be done well. But not by Writer's Block.

    And as with every genre, it sucks a lot of the time.
  • Plus, redacted is there, and everything redacted writes I am legally obligated to hate. 
  • You can change. You can.
    And as with every genre, it sucks a lot of the time.

    You take that right back. Westerns are awesome. >:|

    but really, I don't think harem's per se are bad, so much as how many of them tend to fall on the same writing traps. I do think the genre can have some legitimacy to it if someone sits their ass and actually makes an effort beyond fanservice.
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