All Purpose Pokemon Thread

Nova

I define "excuse plot" as "no more story than needed to tell the player to go do something." 

No, 'excuse plot' is basically 'we need the player to do this, this and this, so let's make up a justification for it, polish it up a bit so it's not obvious (that step is optional) and market it.'

One of the biggest indicators is lack of character depths and backstories.

ClockworkUniverse

Well, at least as of Gen. IV, a lot of the characters do have backstories.

Nova

N does.

Gen IV is the best for this, I reckon. It has a plot, although it's shallow. Or maybe I'm just a Cynthia fangirl.

But name five characters in Gen 5 who have more than 2 lines of backstory.

ClockworkUniverse

I'm not familiar with Gen 5 at all, but Cyrus has one. You just have to seek out his uncle to find out about it.

And HG/SS gives the Gen II rival one, but you can't even find out about it without an Event Celebi, so most people aren't aware of it.

Nova

That's:

> Cyrus

> N

> Silver

3 people in 5 generations.

Radd

Bianca

Cheren

Shadow Triad

N

Ghetsis

That's seven.

ClockworkUniverse

All I'm saying is that I think giving the games more plot than is needed to provide a goal predates Gen V. I'm definitely not arguing that they're an example of awesome storytelling or anything.

Nova

Bianca

Cheren

Shadow Triad

Ghetsis

I have played Black through and am not aware of backstories for any of them.

Like the player, Bianca lives in the starting town of Nuvema Town, and is also a childhood friend of the player (and soon-to-be-rival). Though she is somewhat unreliable and a bit of an airhead, she also has a strong side, as shown when she embarks on a Pokémon journey despite her father's strong opposition. This is emphasized in Nimbasa City, where her father disallows her to become a Pokémon Trainer. With the help of Nimbasa City Gym Leader Elesa, Bianca convinces her father to let her follow her dream.

Like the player and Cheren, Bianca receives a starter Pokémon as a gift from Professor Juniper at the start of the game; she chooses the Pokémon with a type disadvantage to the player's starter Pokémon. The player encounters Bianca on several occasions, where she often challenges the player to a battle.

Noooope.

All I'm saying is that I think giving the games more plot than is needed to provide a goal predates Gen V. 

2 goals in Platinum.

1: Collect the plot tokens.

2: Go to place [X] and fight [X] person who is attempting to do [X] that will get you to go to [X] to fulfil primary goal 1.

Basically, a plot is more than 'these guys are doing this this and this you stopped them doing this her and now go there to stop them'.

glennmagusharvey

Is Lick still a disgustingly useless move?

Nova

Is Lick still a disgustingly useless move?

Aside from a low BP, it's OK at low levels. Then again, I'm speaking Level 5/6.

ClockworkUniverse

1: Collect the plot tokens. 

2: Go to place [X] and fight [X] person who is attempting to do [X] that will get you to go to [X] to fulfil primary goal 1.

And this generation introduced things like Arceus and Regigas, which have (admittedly simple) myths related to them but have not a thing to do with all that.

Radd

There's a big deal about

despite her father's strong opposition

in B/W.

Nova

And this generation introduced things like Arceus and Regigas, which have (admittedly simple) myths related to them but have not a thing to do with all that.

That's not plot-related, though. That's lore-related. Pokemon has a lot of lore, but very little plot.

There's a big deal about

despite her father's strong opposition

in B/W.

Twice >_<

Twice. Once at the very beginning, and once when he turns up randomly in Nimbasa, and it's never mentioned otherwise.

ClockworkUniverse

Yeah, but when there's lore unrelated to the main plot, I take that as an indication that the writing staff sees writing as something more than an obligation, at least a little.

I think our main problem here is that we think of the term "excuse plot" differently.

Radd

Way more than two lines though.

Nova

Very possibly.

It's just, it's perfectly possible to not give a rat's ass about the plot, and instead focus on the appeal of the game- the Pokemon, and making them as interesting as possible.

Bah. Need sleep. Night.

Nova

Way more than two lines though.

I specified 'backstory'. Subplots deal in scenes rather than lines. Scenes or mentions. Backstory is something you really only talk about a few lines at a time.

CaptainFargle

I'm also going to argue that Gen 5 has graduated above excuse plot. There's actual effort in the story this time.

Of course there was actual effort in Platinum as well, but there's even more in B/W.

Icalasari

You know, you don't need badges to use HMs in Black/White anymore

They just give you most HMs at a certain point to railraod you

Crimson

No, I think you still do need badges for HMs. It's just they made them optional (well there's one required Cut tree, ONE.), they're just used to explore optional routes and make shortcuts now.

nohaynicklibre

I haven't played, but I heard you don't even need most of the HMs

Icalasari

^^ One person had a Pokemon traded knowing surf after getting the first badge (Earliest you can trade). They were able to surf

CaptainFargle

As was stated there is only one required use of an HM in the entire game. Everything else is completely optional.

Icalasari

Thought you had to use Surf at one point

Vorpy

Nope. Everything can be ran to, allegedly.

CaptainFargle

It can. Surf is only used to access secret areas and optional dungeons.

Icalasari

Huh

So I freaked out over possibly not getting a water type on my Nuzlocke run for nothing...

Vorpy

^ It gets rid of rock types easily

CaptainFargle

There's plenty of others for that.

MisaAmane

Not really.