›
If you have an email ending in @hotmail.com, @live.com or @outlook.com (or any other Microsoft-related domain), please consider changing it to another email provider; Microsoft decided to instantly block the server's IP, so emails can't be sent to these addresses.
If you use an @yahoo.com email or any related Yahoo services, they have blocked us also due to "user complaints"
-UE

Nakama is being renamed.

12357

Comments

  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    Third and last time I'll say it, the only reason that this is in the headlines is because this is one of those things that has caused people getting banned and other bad juju that it's better to not mention, and it seems unfair for people who are not always on the know to not give them the possibility to revisit the subject.

    As for it being a big deal, well, it does matter, insofar as it is an ifamous example of a fandom taking priority over the goals of the wiki. 

    And again, the argument of "Much more meaningful contributions to the wiki" is incredibly subjective. I'd dare say that renaming this and leaving this subject behind for good is worth deserving of a medal to whoever does it. Because really, all the whining, drama, banned people, threads, etc etc have been nothing but a waste of effort. So...one last change and we'll be done with this and move to something far more interesting.
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    Tropers =/= Readers.

    The Wiki is not meant for the Tropers. It is meant for the people who read the site.
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    Third and last time I'll say it, the only reason that this is in the headlines is because this is one of those things that has caused people getting banned and other bad juju that it's better to not mention, and it seems unfair for people who are not always on the know to not give them the possibility to revisit the subject.

    Yes.
  • vandrovandro
    edited 2011-07-10 02:19:56
    He who laments and can't let go of the past is forever doomed to solitude.
    I am all for japanese named tropes, as long as the concept itself is only conveyed in japanese, like tsundere and yandere, but nakama, it is just camaraderie.
  • MadassAlexMadassAlex
    edited 2011-07-10 02:29:42
    One foot in front of the other, every day.
    I don't think this is a case of a fandom taking priority over the goals of the wiki, though, unless you've got a bunch of weaboos defending the use of the term.

    I also understand that subjectivity comes into it, but it seems clear to me that more works pages, useful notes and tropes should take precedence over an unclear trope name. This whole shenanigous episode has turned Nakama from unclear into Serious Business when it doesn't warrant this level of attention.

    Concerning the difference between tropers and readers, do we have any raw data concerning the amount of people who access it without an account versus those with an account? And how do we tell what kind of audience we have? Assuming that everyone who reads the wiki is well-versed in the subcultural geek terminology is silly, but so does assuming that new readers are completely unaware of it. For a claim with the implications that Tropers =/= Readers has to work, we need raw data to back it up.
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    I am all for japanese named tropes, as long as the concept itself is only conveyed in japanese, like tsundere and yandere, but nakama, it is just camaraderie.

    Yes. I agree with this.

    I don't think this is a case of a fandom taking priority over the goals of the wiki, though, unless you've got a bunch of weaboos defending the use of the term. 

    There really was. Juan is not exaggerating when he says last time, this resulted in bannings.

    I also understand that subjectivity comes into it, but it seems clear to me that more works pages, useful notes and tropes should take precedence over an unclear trope name.

    They all need attention. The only people spending a large amount of time here are the people who spend time in the Trope Repair Shop anyway.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    I don't think this is a case of a fandom taking priority over the goals of the wiki, though, unless you've got a bunch of weaboos defending the use of the term. 

    This is exactly what happened the last time the subject was brought out.

    I also understand that subjectivity comes into it, but it seems clear to me that more works pages, useful notes and tropes should take precedence over an unclear trope name. This whole shenanigous episode has turned Nakama from unclear into Serious Business when it doesn't warrant this level of attention.

    All I'm saying is that there's a reason that this thing is in the Troper's Law page and as stated before, the drama before it was really fucking big. It's prioritize not because it's a big deal, but because it has been a big deal, and as such, we want to avoid the same pitfalls and problems we went through last time. (At least, that's my understanding of it)

    Besides, it's been a long ass running joke that the thing would never see a rename. It's like TT getting deleted or Eddie saying that "From now on, we're Wikipedia", you know? Stuff we never thought it'd happen.


  • MadassAlexMadassAlex
    One foot in front of the other, every day.
    Oh.

    I'm with you now.

    (But I still think this whole thing is silly.)
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    It's particularly silly, but not by our choice.
  • InsanityAddictInsanityAddict
    Diet NEET
    Don't give a damn as long as a viable alternative is found that doesn't sound cringeworthy, and the proponents of the change won't whine in turn if people still keep using the term(especially not on animanga-related pages).
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    I will not whine as long as the Nakama redirect is used only where it makes more sense than the new title.
  • CounterclockCounterclock
    Belief
    What other words were redirected to Nakama?
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    alt title(s): Fellowship; Like Family; Comrades; Ohana; Coterie; Friends Like Family; Camaraderie
  • CounterclockCounterclock
    Belief
    Well, logically, It'd probably be best just to rename it after the one that brings the most traffic, that is after all, one of the reasons it's getting renamed "weird name that requires a working knowledge of the site to understand"

    I'm sure one of those other words has brought in more new viewers then one of the others.
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    We can't check redirects.
  • NyktosNyktos
    a little muffled
    I don't really give a shit about TRS anymore, but I'll be happy if this finally gets changed.

    Incidentally, can someone who's following this thread tell me if merging with Band of Brothers under than name has been proposed? Because honestly, I don't see a fundamental difference between the two tropes, and Band of Brothers is a good name.
  • CounterclockCounterclock
    Belief
    Ah well, Too bad :p
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    Incidentally, can someone who's following this thread tell me if merging with Band of Brothers under than name has been proposed? Because honestly, I don't see a fundamental difference between the two tropes, and Band of Brothers is a good name.

    Proposed and rejected.

    Band of Brothers is a Trope already, about people who grow closer due to shared danger.
  • MadassAlexMadassAlex
    One foot in front of the other, every day.
    Surrogate Siblings?
  • NyktosNyktos
    edited 2011-07-10 05:26:07
    a little muffled
    @Cygan: I know that, but a) I don't see how the name implies that in particular, and b) that describes most examples of Nakama I can think of as well.
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    Blame this and this for making most people thinking of this as that.

    You'll find Nakama-esque relationships in all sorts of media. Slice of Life, Soap Operas, etc etc.

    It describes relationships between friends that run extraordinarily deeply. This can happen between anyone, not just between people who have suffered danger together.

    Surrogate Siblings?

    I'll offer it in the thread.
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    Someone offered up Surrogate Siblings as a potential name. Thoughts?

    Possibly not a good name, as they may be significantly older/younger...

    Surrogate Family?


    Surrogate Family to me implies something else much narrower than this trope, like a caretaker or someone who runs an orphanage to make up for their lack of family.

    The word "surrogate" implies you are replacing something that is missing, and this trope is not necessarily the case, the character may have a real family/siblings.
  • NyktosNyktos
    a little muffled
    Eh, I suppose you're right.
  • MadassAlexMadassAlex
    One foot in front of the other, every day.
    As I thought, but I always love added alliterative appeal.
  • CrimsonCrimson
    Give us fire! Give us ruin! Give us our glory!
    Up until now I was against renaming Nakama because all the alternatives sounded dumb.

    If we can find a good name (Camaraderie or Unshakable Camaraderie sound good) then I'm all for it.
  • IanExMachinaIanExMachina
    I am Dr. Ned who is totally not Dr. Zed in disguise.
    I'm all for the removal of the fan myopic names such as nakama and such.
    I've already voted in the thread and think the Unshakeable Camaraderie is a good name.
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    We're looking at 'coterie', simply 'coz it's easier to fit in a sentence.
  • ElbeemElbeem
    The ratio of Yes to No votes has been trending up again since last night. I honestly hope that it continues that way, so that this thing can be declared a done deal.

    If the ratio drops below the threshold and it doesn't get changed, there will be another two years of bitching.

    If the ratio drops below the threshold and it gets changed by fiat, there will be another two years of bitching from the opposing side.

    If the ratio remains above the threshold and the change happens... well, there will probably still be a lot of bitching, but at least the change will have an air of legitimacy to it.
  • CrimsonCrimson
    Give us fire! Give us ruin! Give us our glory!
    ^^That sounds just as opaque as Nakama to me. Bringing us back to square one.
  • NovaNova
    edited 2011-07-10 09:59:45
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    That sounds just as opaque as Nakama to me. Bringing us back to square one.

    Many people know what coterie means -_-;
Sign In or Register to comment.