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Comments
No he doesn't. People keep misinterpreting that.
At the very least, he seems to be admitting that the war was hurting more than helping.
Fair enough.
I dunno, but anyone who would berate you for being a "bad nerd" isn't someone whose opinions you should let influence you anyway.
Hur, do u like cocktails?
"Yes"
Well, I provide the cock, and you provide the tail.
#epitome of wit
What does a stoner do with a spraying can?
hashtagging
lololol
Currently reading up on SSH because it's really caught my attention (especially regarding what I could do with it if I can get my Raspberry Pi working properly). Seems a little complicated so far, but I'm sure I'll get the hang of it...
Who (the nazi elves) are in turn the entire reason the ban needs to be fought. Oh yes, Ulfric's little adventure in the Reach gave them the pretext for a crackdown, but since they had the right to it due to the Concordat anyway, they would have done sooner or later anyway.
They couldn't really have done it; Skyrim is too harsh for them to have gone in and tried to enforce the ban without serious backup, such as an entire force of Imperial Legionnaires.
Or, they could have waited- but then, they would have had to send in their own forces, and suffer their own losses as the Empire grows stronger.
The entire reason the Empire supported the ban is because they're too afraid the Thalmor would restart the war. But if they fear the Thalmor can seriously overrun the entire Empire (and as the war has shown, that's a realistic estimation), then the Elves wouldn't have any trouble controlling the ban in Skyrim. If need be they send an army to do so. The Concordat entitles them to that, as they may inspect the upholding of the ban.
Really, I can scarcely believe how one could hold up foreign occupiers with scant regard to the local populace and traditions (I take Uflric's brand of arrogance over Tullius' brand of arrogance any day), who actively collaborate with the enemies of mankind and try to suppress religion, as the good guys here. The Stormcloaks started the war, yes - but the Imperials should never have been in Skyrim in the first place (or at least, not the Mede Empire, which is very much not the same as the Septim Empire).
Remember, the Empire wasn't enforcing the ban until Ulfric's little stunts made it impossible not to.
And as I've said, the Thalmor would have found another pretext to have them enforce the ban if not for that incident. Denying Talos' divinity is central to their spiritual agenda. If we take Kirkbrides out-of-game wirtings as canon (which I do), then the Thalmor has no real interest in worldly conquest except as a means to an end. They don't just threaten the continent with their arms, they threaten all of Mundus with their theological/spiritual aims.
And I see no reason why an independent Skyrim couldn't be an ally of the Empire. In fact, if only the Empire had given Skyrim its justified freedom, they would be natural allies, as they both would face the Thalmor as either a threat (Empire) or a religious/ideological enemy (Skryim). Now, though, after so much blood has been spilled because of the Empire's stubbornness, that might be more problematic.
I know all that about the Thalmor, but you have to keep in mind that they have to prioritize their actions. Before Ulfric's protests, they were focusing more on building their army, since they can achieve their goals in Tamriel much more easily once they control it outright.
And I get what you mean about how the Empire could grant Skyrim independence, but you have to consider just how long the Empire has been in place, meaning that everyone considers Skyrim being part of it just the way things are, as well as the fact that they appear to have more-or-less been letting Skyrim run itself anyway.
Stubbornness? They let the Thalmor into Skyrim because they would die otherwise, then went to war with Ulfric because he murdered the High King and tried to take over the country. The Empire basically has zero free will in this whole affair.
Here's basically how I picture it going down:
Here's roughly how I picture the whole thing going down:
They agreed to the ban twenty-six years ago- an entire generation ago for men, and not even close for mer. Immediately after the Great War, the Thalmor being able to overrun the Empire was a legitimate concern, as the Empire was incredibly low on strength after having large portions of its Legions in strength. They had next to nothing to fight off the Thalmor with.
A question has been raised about whether the Thalmor even could have invaded, but the Empire had no real way to find out. At the time of the Great War, the Empire was still relying on the Blades over the Penitus Oculatus to be its primary information network, and the Blades were annihilated over the course of the war.
It's certainly possible that the Thalmor were bluffing when they threatened to invade again, but who knows?
However, marching on a weakened Empire is extremely different to trying to impose a ban on a recovering Skyrim. The Thalmor would have to march supplies up through Cyrodiil through three passes, one in the Rift and two in Falkreath Hold, all of which- such as Pale Pass- are dangerous to go through.
Once there, the Thalmor then have to try and establish a foothold in the area. They have to make a base of operations (the Thalmor Embassy), which is difficult without Imperial coin and so on. They have to survive Skyrim's extreme cold, which is difficult for all non-Nords. They have to survive Skyrim's wildlife, including bears, giant spiders, and frost trolls.
They have to do all of this while facing a hostile reception from the locals with no infrastructure to back them up.
It's a different case when a civil war erupts, because then the Thalmor are able to piggyback on the Empire's efforts. The Thalmor can send for supplies with the Empire, they can rely on Imperial soldiers to help enforce their ban, they can rely on the Imperial infrastructure in Skyrim, and so on, so forth.
They are two very different scenarios, and one favours the Thalmor much more than the other.
Mind you, this is a moot point because the Thalmor set the situation up quite deliberately so that Ulfric would rebel and the Thalmor would have a pretext to invade. If the Thalmor had not intervened, Ulfric would not have rebelled, for a variety of reasons.
I think you mean the Third Empire, which is very much the same as the Third Empire, headed up by a differing Dynasty.
If we're going to get into technicalities, however, the Septim Dynasty hasn't truly been the Septim Dynasty for a long time. The line of succession has been broken at least three times that I know of, resulting in increasingly tenuous links to Talos' bloodline (except in the case of the death of Uriel IV, whereupon Cephorus II ascended to the throne with a stronger blood tie to Talos than Uriel's child, Andorak).
By the time of Uriel VII, there was no direct blood ties to Talos in the royal bloodline, and in fact there had not been for many centuries by that point.
Now, as to whether the Empire deserves to exist without a blood relation back to Talos? Well, I dunno. Personally, I think Talos'd prefer the Mede Dynasty to continue on with the Empire than to allow his Empire to just die, but that's just speculation.
Perhaps, if one were willing to trade multiply walls of text, it would easier with a thread centered around the topic, rather than generic updates.
You can't tell me where to post! Posting in Updates forever!
#yolo
Elisif (Solitude), Idgrod (Morthal), Igmund (Markarth), Siddgeir (Falkreath) and Balgruuf (Whiterun) all vote to stay with the Empire, yes. Or are aligned with the Empire, as the case may be, as there's no formal vote.
Skald (Dawnstar), Laila (Riften), Korir (Winterhold), and Windhelm (Ulfric) are aligned against the Empire.
But really, as soon as you hear "Balgruuf is aligned against the Stormcloaks" you should reconsider any positive feelings you have towards the Stormcloaks.
Actually, there's already a Skyrim thread around here...
Yes but I can't be arsed to dig it up so shush.
If you've done a certain Daedric quest, it hints that Balgruuf is far from the admirable character you are led to believe he is, though...
Balgruuf's dirty secrets:
1. He still worships Talos.
2. He hates the Thalmor at least as much as Ulfric does.
3. Nelkir has a different mother than his siblings.
Although whether that last one is true or whether it's something Mephala whispered to him in order to get him to do her bidding is... questionable.
So much text to answer...
So going by that logic, Ulfric's shitstorm was actually a good thing because it denied the Thalmor the time to more thoroughly prepare itself? The main point still is that sooner or later the Thalmor would have come after the Talos worshippers anyway; their agenda demands it. Open resistance to the ban is hence the only worthwhile answer.
It's not the same Empire, though, but I get to that point when I answer Nova. And the Empire let all provinces run itself to a degree. As it is, in any case, even while the Thalmor is still a threat looming over them, the Empire let itself get bogged down in a war against fellow men. They'd rather invest their military might into upholding power even against potential allies then in actually doing something against the Thalmor. The charge levied against the Stormcloaks, that they disunite the anti-Thalmor forces, can be levied just as much against the Empire.
Yeah, I don't think that speculation is covered by anything found in the game. Sure, it's also not explicitly denied by anything in the game, but come on, that's not how this works. The impression we get in the game is that the Thalmor is in fact this very credible threat looming over the Empire. The Empire does its bidding, but only because it's been forced to.
Also, your speculation about a scenario where the Thalmor would have to enforce the ban alone does not make much sense. Sure, Skyrim has perfect territories for ambushes, and if "brigands" *cough cough* attack the Thalmor agents then the Empire will send its regrets but surely otherwise look away. On the other hand, Skyrim would have to rely on such methods. Open, organized military defiance of the Thalmor by the Jarls would after all result in the same outcome as Ulfric's open defiance, that is, the Thalmor simply forcing the Empire to go along with the enforcement. So Skyrim would have to fight in the shadows, and it would also have to fight alone, as the Empire could maybe send some covert aid, but not much, so that it stays covert.
Given all that, I'm sure a Thalmor army would have no problems in dealing with the remnants of the Talos cult in Skyrim. Yes, it's a very harsh and dangerous place, but I doubt a Thalmor army will get mauled by bears!
No, this is actually a very important point. The Mede Empire is exactly the same as the Akaviri Potentate of the 2nd Era... the shadow of a dead Empire. When the Reman line died out, who ruled the 2nd Empire, his chief advisor the Potentate (who was the reason for this extinction) took over "in his name" and ruled as Potentate, also declaring the ushering in of a new era, the 2nd Era. As it so happened, the 2nd Era was an empire-less time... the Potentate was not a true continuation of the Reman Empire, it was a pretender. The same is now true of the 4th Era and the Mede Empire.
The thing is, all the 'true' Empires had a certain mythological legitimation they were based on. That is what made them 'the Empire', moreso than any power they had. Alessia's first 'Empire' for example did not extend beyond Cyrodiil. But all three Empires stand in succession to each other because they were each founded in a similar manner: Alessia, Reman and Tiber all created something new. They were makers. And not only were they very powerful people, they also all found ways to gain mythological power during their lifetimes. Tiber even ascended to godhood. On the other hand, the Potentates and the Medes tried/try desperately clinge on to something old, something dead. They hence lack the mythological legitimation of being a true Empire, or even only being the continuation of one. Hell, you even meet (the spirit of) Tiber Septim in Morrowind and he outright tells you the Empire needs to be replaced with something new. But the Medes' clinging on prevents that.The Medes are just pretenders, not the real deal.
Well, technically, only the 2nd Emperor was still of his blood. Everybody afterwards was of the line of his brother. But that seems to have been enough. And while direct succession has been broken at times, with one exception the crown then always went to a Septim sideline. Yes, the Brief History goes on about how increasingly removed those lines are, but that is irrelevant - 'removed' in a dynastical sense means removed from the (in those cases extinct anyway) main line, which doesn't matter. They all are still descended from Tiber's brother (which, as I've said, seems to be enough), being Septims. The only exception are, the only Emperors who were not of Septim blood are Katariah II (a dunmer even) and Uriel IV, and as you've said, upon Uriel's death the crown was restored to a Septim-by-blood.So Uriel VII did in fact have, well, the blood of Tiber's brother in him. Which always seems to have been enough.
Funny thing, btw: Legally, Uriel IV was a Septim, having been adopted, and hence so was Andorak. And according to the Brief History, at the time of Morrowind, his descendants still rule Shornehelm in High Rock. So, assuming they have not all died during the Daedra invasion, Ocato is wrong: There still would have been Septims around. Just not Septims-by-blood. But (again, assuming they survived the invasion), could plausibly have raised a claim to the Empire. But apparently Bethesda forgot about that line, heh. And in any case, it would have led to the same discussion, though it would have made the issue a bit more complicated...
Yeah, as I've said, the exact opposite is confirmed already by Morrowind: Tiber would wish for the Empire to be discarded entirely, so that something new can rise.
Baalgruf is a swell guy, but he... chose poorly.
But you're the one who posted it. Threads you started yourselff are listed on your own profile page under the "discussions" tab.
Whatever, it's not like this place is all that organized.
edit:huh, apparently there was a non-liveblog one. I guess you meant that.
Duuude it's 2AM. Not cool.
Yes, I meant one of the general TES discussion threads.
My post will still be there tomorrow for you to answer to you. Good night, and dream of giants, dragons and orcs
There's a roughly 90% chance that I'll have completely stopped caring about anything I've talked about today by the time I get up tomorrow.
Does it happen to you often that the best lines come to you just a while after the discussion is over? I mean, I personally routinely catch myself harbouring them in case of a future discussion on a related topic.
All the time.
I have probably forgotten the lines if I ever did that.