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Avengers Assemble!
I just really like typing that ok
Anyway, thread for the Avengers movie so that we can discuss it, fanboy over it and so that malk, alk and jualk get to recommend avenger stories
Comments
I think what I really liked is that it felt like a story from the Lee-Kirby era in a lot of ways. A bunch of emotionally maladjusted people learning to work together to keep someone from conquering the world with good doses of humor to keep things from getting too heavy. Of course, that's the stuff Whedon honed his craft on so it makes perfect sense.
Also the particularly Whedon-y thing that happens in the second act? Called it.
I've been meaning to check Lee-Kirby's stuff for quite a while now (Mostly to finally break into Marvel because I'm such a completistfag)
But yeah, I liked that it actually fell like Whedon at his finest, writing about people who have to face both themselves as a group and a big threat and do so through the power of ~teamwork~ and ~adopted family~
Yeah, it was a bit predictable. To be honest, that moment didn't work well with me because that was the kinda bullshit that got me burnt out on Whedon over time, but my sister just went "What the fuck man" for the next half hour so it made me smile.
And of course he was stabbed through the chest too. A lot less randomly than Wash at least, since he was punching way out of his weight class.
One onehand I had a lot of fun seeing the movie on opening night, but the applause and clapping of the audience kinda drowned out bits of the movie. Like I almost missed the "Puny God!" line.
I liked that, to be honest. It did give them a good motivator- before, it was all about them being petty and just not working together as a team; but after that, they saw that if they had been working as a team, they could have saved him.
Well, it was about the Avengers, and they had to avenge something. Although it woulda been cooler if they had come up with the name after rather than it being a SHIELD directive, but maybe that's just because I never liked SHIELD being involved with superheroes that much.
huh
I'm sure Hulk would have just growled and punched Tony instead of limiting himself to using pesky words.
With that said, Thor and Flunkies sounds like a rock band and considering that Thor is metal as fuck, it might as well be the name of an Avengers garage band whenever they're bored.
Man remember the time in the comics Thor had to journey into hell to find a way to stop the Desir, a gang of cannibalistic valkerie ghosts who could kill gods and could be summoned by speaking their names?
Thor is occasionally metal as all fuck.
Also: jualk <-- Is this some bizarre entity where we combine Captain Planet style to fight crime?
no, that would be jualkavian. that's just there so it can rhyme.
Do we really need spoiler tags in here? Can't we just assume this is spoiler central?
Anyway, fucking ADORED the movie.
Yes, but people fall under temptation, which is totally fair. Personally, I don't mind it, but I made the thread specifically so we didn't spoil people. So I'll just leave it to the person's discretion, really
> Thor and Flunkies sounds like a rock band
Thor: Roger you shall be vocals. Anthony, take up this mighty axe, Hulk, you are on drums.
Hulk: WHY HULK ON DRUMS?
Thor: Why do you think?
In any case, a scene I really loved was the scene in Germany where Loki is commanding everyone to kneel with the one old defiant Jewish man. For all the talk of how progressive a storyteller Whedon he is, he's a master at doing cliches like that. It's particularly meaningful when it's Captain America coming in to save the Germans.
Also:
"Last time here in Germany I saw a big man standing over a bunch of others... we ended up disagreeing."
It takes a pretty skilled storyteller to take something that has been done a thousand times and make the audience appreciate it anew.
Thor and Flunkies with the single, "Avengin’ Ur Luv"
And then a disgruntled Hulk left the group for a singing career, where he wrote such bewtifool songs as "Hulk Smash" and "Two sides (smashy smashy and thinky thinky)"
Anyway, Germany was awesome because it involved Hiddlestone invoking such a great, almost-shakesperean presence, towering over everyone and telling them to get rid of their free will after trolling them via multiple images of himself for a while.
I'm not disagreeing, but I find that Whedon shares a lot with Sam Raimi (another superlative filmmaker who occasionally burns me) is that while they're hailed as new and fresh a lot of their work comes from appreciation of the old and bringing it to modern sensibilities. Like I said, the story itself is something that feels very much like a Lee story. (though the dialogue very much does not)
I will say that Hawkeye was definitely the weakest point of the movie for me, which admittedly is like saying it was the coolest point on the sun. I never felt any emotional distress from Black Widow concerning it, and the one point that might have been was actually a fake-out to trick Loki. And his entire desire to 'get back' at Loki is completely subsumed by the much more interesting sibling conflict Thor has with him.
That said he's also the one who gets the least screentime so it might just be everyone acknowledging that Hawkeye is lame.
I found Black Widow less interesting, personally, if only because her story kind of bored me in its... boringness.
Hmmm...Wait a second.
Black Widow saddened me because I saw that Whedon tried really hard to make her look cool, giving her cool lines and moments, but Johansson just can't pull them off and reads everything in this dead, bland voice of hers that really makes it look as if she was bored. You can see almost everyone having fun with their roles, except her.
Hell, even Jenner, who gets to play one of the most boring response characters in the history of comic books does demonstrate some fun in the role, even if he's rather dullish, because lolhawkeye.
I dug Black Widow in her introductory scene, though I agree those two were the least interesting in the movie.
Makes me wish they had kept in Wasp all the more.
I dug them both, actually.
Oh, I liked them both and enjoyed their presence but they're both the weakest links in the team, one because of her performance and the other because of his almost non-existent presence.
Yeah, but you could tell he actually tried. Bruce and Stark were great in their roles, but not because Whedon specifically went out of his way to make them; rather, their characters fit the role and the movie much better than Hawkeye and Black Widow did.
Hawkeye and Black Widow were just... out of their depth, and it showed in that they couldn't really do anything of note. I mean, Thor fought Loki, Iron Man and Captain America in succession, Iron Man took on Thor and was actually winning, took on Loki, and rode a fucking nuke into a portal to outer space and rode the explosion back to Earth, Hulk took on those giant flying snake things and beat them to death with his bare hands, hell, he took on Loki and pummeled him, Captain America fought Loki and wasn't outclassed and even held his own, and he had that scene with the hotel where he rescued the civilians on top of his noncombatant roles where he gave idealist speeches and stuff, and Hawkeye... shot arrows at things. Loki even caught him, and it was only a contrivance that let him actually deal damage to him with an explosive arrow. And Black Widow did roughly jack shit there.
I don't think Hawkeye and Black Widow's inclusion was necessarily a misstep, so much as their execution in the story. Hawkeye doesn't even get to bond with the group, which really harms his characterization, while Black Widow's role in the story was never as a combatant, but as a recruiter and interrogator, which she did pull off for her character.
They're not particularly bad, but when everybody else in the movie is so much more interesting and engaging they stick out in their averageness.
Another note about the Germany scene, is that I think it actually accentuates Cap as a person perfectly, going in to immediately fight and protect the people who were the enemy when he was under.
Captain America might be for America, but he's not against any country. The only thing he's against is evil.
^I agree with this, but I also think that there's a problem in how the characters are seen in the movie and not being on the same level. And it's not just that they don't have powers.
I'm not saying that they shouldn't have been included, I'm saying that the execution of the movie went against the execution of the characters and harmed their chances of being really interesting characters.
They seem to be much more personal characters, relying upon characterization to carry them off rather than the epic scenes like the last battle, like the other characters used.
I mean, I can easily imagine Black Widow fitting into the Captain America movie, as it had a smaller, tighter focus, and was focused a lot more on the characters than the plot- and it had more potential for interrogation scenes.
Another thing that bugged me about the movie is how all of the wimmins fighters were dressed up in sexy outfits and such. I mean, I'm pretty sure that that was drawn on from the comics, but it felt off to me.
All the women fighters? I think you mean the women spies.
I don't know, personally, I love powerless superheroes in big adventures fighting alongside the top guns, but I might be influenced by my love of the JLA.
Also, I only recall one woman fighting and...well, black widow being deliberately sexy is just one of those things. With that said, at least we didn't get the usual bikini instead of armor, so yay?
>Another thing that bugged me about the movie is how all of the wimmins fighters were dressed up in sexy outfits and such. I mean, I'm pretty sure that that was drawn on from the comics, but it felt off to me.
Are you saying Thor and Cap didn't look delicious?
In more seriousness, I guess I get your point, but I felt Hill's suit, though form-fitting, felt really practical and never objectifying. There also weren't LOOKITHERASS scenes like in Iron Man 2.
I think Hawk and BW had the problem where they didn't have an establishing movie. BW didn't really have a character in Iron Man, which led Whedon to turning her into Buffy-lite, and Hawk didn't even have an establishing scene in Thor. I don't see why they couldn't have had a fight scene and Hawkeye end up helping him in the climax of Thor. It also would have given Thor a stake in Hawkeye being captured.
There was also that other woman. The one who worked for Fury? With black hair? I forget her name.
i dont know
sorry
Maria Hill.