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Comments
Incidentally, Shadow Tag Chandelure is banned in DW OU. So it'll probably be banned once it comes out.
Think I'll take Ground and Ghost if we're doing two types. Otherwise, Ghost.
BTW, permanent Weather summoners such as Ninetails and Politoed are banned in monotype teams, just so you know.
Sweet. I think I'll make a monotype team, a dual type team, and a themed team, just in case.
EDIT: Oh, hey, what do ya think of this team (nothing to do with the little legaue we're forming, but a separate OU team):
Skarmory, Wobbuffet, Forretress, Jellicent, DD Haxorus, and Latios.
However, to those that are planning to make a Rock type mono-team, Sand Stream Tyranitar isn't banned just so you know. Sand Stream Hippwodon is banned in Mono Ground for the reason that Excadrill and Garchomp are not banned in mono Ground.
Hmm, dibs on Steel too, for my mono as well.
Mono Dragon is legal, but there's all sorts of crazy clauses in place that prevent mono Dragon teams from being useful. Like you can only use certain dragon types out of all of them. You can't use a team of certain dragon types at the same time. It's hard to explain. Like you can't use both Latis on the same team or something like that. (Or they're both banned in mono-Dragon. I can't remember.)
Well, that's good. I'd be stupefied at a format where Haxorus, Hydreigon, Salamence, Lati@s, and Dragonite were allowed on the same team against other monotype teams.
I may actually go a themed-type team as well.
I'll probably do a VoltTurnPass team, for theme.
I would probably go for a mythological-inspired team. Gyarados, Golem, Ninetales, things like that.
So, I guess I'll go for mono Rock, Rock/Steel dual type if possible, and a Trick Room team.
@Marioguy: Man, where are all these weird monotype rules coming from? Every time I've ever done monotype, it's just been standard OU, 5/6 of your Pokémon must be the relevant type...
The only rules I know of for OU are the obvious "Don't use Ubers, jerkass.", and "Don't use Pokémon with Swift Swim and Drizzle on the same team."
@Saigyouji: Those are in fact the only rules specific to OU.
Species clause and sleep clause, and the bans on evasion moves, OHKOs, and the ability Moody are standard in all tiers.
The issue with Moody is that it's a free +2 boost to a stat, every turn.
I think Moody is banned, yeah.
@Icalasari: More or less. Specifically it was abusive with a set using Protect and Substitute to stall and rack up Moody boosts until you get enough evasion boost that nothing can hit you, and then you Baton Pass and sweep. It was a fairly strong strategy that was 100% luck based so that's why it's banned.
Other evasion-related abilities aren't banned though (most notably the ones that boost evasion in weather).
It kinda sucks about Garchomp; what with Sand Veil being his only ability, there's really nothing to do for the moment but keep him in Ubers. And of course, even when Rough Skin is released, knowing Smogon, they'll keep Garchomp banned entirely, rather than just banning Sand Veil Garchomp (or, really, Sand Veil, period). I still think it's stupid how Smogon wants to avoid "complex" bans.
It's vaguely insulting to imply that people cannot differentiate between a Blaziken with Speed Boost and one with Blaze. Though I guess one of the problems with enforcing that is that it's not immediately apparent which ability Garchomp has.
Sandslash also has Sand Veil as its only released ability, and Beartic has Snow Cloak as its only one.
I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see the abilities banned once everything with them gets a DW ability; there's a strong movement to do so and nobody's really got an argument against other than the fact that it implicitly bans some Pokémon.
Sand Veil is not the only reason Garchomp is uber though.
Well, that's good.
What else does he have for advantages? I got the impression from one topic that the set that made him broken is Sand Veil+Substitute+Swords Dance, with the idea being that it spams Substitute until the enemy misses, at which point you Swords Dance and then destroy everything they have. I know it also has good coverage and better speed than any of the other pseudolegendaries (though as far as Dragons go, the Lati@s still outspeed it), but I'm not sure how that sets it apart from some of the others in OU.
The set that got it banned back in gen 4 didn't run Substitute, it was just Swords Dance + Outrage + Earthquake + Stone Edge with a Yache Berry (the one that reduces damage from an Ice attack). Sand Veil may have been what pushed it over the edge, but it would've been the best sweeper in OU without it. It was pretty much completely uncounterable without sacrificing something. The fact that Sand Veil could turn a successful revenge kill into ups my team's dead was a large part of the problem, true, but it was arguably uber material even without taking that into account.
That said, the general power level is higher in gen 5 so possibly non-Sand Veil Garchomp would be okay.
Did Scarves exist back in Gen 4? Because I feel that those might make it significantly easier to counter it once Sand Veil is gone.
The thing is that with the Yache Berry your scarfed thing was unlikely to actually OHKO it, even if it was able to switch in on SD. And Garchomp with a dance under its belt was very likely to be able to OHKO in response.
Well Garchomp was booted back to OU during the beginning of the Gen V metagame. Even then, it still proved to be too powerful even with all the new toys that were introduced.
It's vaguely insulting to imply that people cannot differentiate between a Blaziken with Speed Boost and one with Blaze. Though I guess one of the problems with enforcing that is that it's not immediately apparent which ability Garchomp has.
That's not the issue. PO can be set up to ban certain abilities in certain tiers. How do you think Monotype enforces its clauses? According to Smogon, they don't want to "jump off the slippery slope with complex bans." I dunno. Their words, not mine.
But Sand Veil is one of the main causes in the words of a random Smogon user.
Sand Veil is like playing the lottery, only losing results in a dragon punching you in the face.
"Complex bans" refer to banning a certain Pokémon with a certain ability as opposed to banning an ability or Pokémon entirely, nothing more or less. Smogon is primarily concerned with simulators, so whether an ability "outs itself" isn't really relevant.
Smogon, banning an ability that outs itself almost right away is not complex. Or should we ban all Pokemon that can learn an OHKO move or double team to prevent complexity?
They didn't ban Speed Boost cause aside from Blaziken, there wasn't really any Pokemon that could outright abuse it. Yes, I agree that banning Blaziken as a whole was dumb, but let's just get things straight here.
Also what Nyktos said.
And posting so my post will be Mew. And I'll probably be on later to test my mono Bug team on Pokémon Online.
So, did we ever agree to use EVs or not? I'm thinking of making a separate thread for this pseudo-League and put up a ruleset we all agree with if anyone is up for it.