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Blind Love for Entertainment

124

Comments

  • KrakenKraken
    If you don't care, then why are you on a forum entirely dedicated to bitching and complaining?
  • CrimsonCrimson
    Give us fire! Give us ruin! Give us our glory!
    >I can't stand people who enjoy things without realizing its flaws.

    See it depends on the flaws, relatively minor ones and no one will mind you for liking. It major ones, then people will question your taste. But when a work is accused of something serious like sexism, racism, glorifying rape etc. and someone still likes it regardless, then it goes beyond simple opinions and calls into question that person's morals and integrity.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    @Juan. some people do hyperbole, but don't think that it's not out of the realm of possibility for some people to really believe that something doesn't have flaws, if you do, I will slap you.

    Oh, some people believe it, definetly. If they do, i authorize you to slap them and demand you to call me so I can slap them too

    We'll be slapping idiots cops :D
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    See it depends on the flaws, relatively minor ones and no one will mind you for liking. It major ones, then people will question your taste. But when a work is accused of something serious like sexism, racism, glorifying rape etc. and someone still likes it regardless, then it goes beyond simple opinions and calls into question that person's morals and integrity. 

    While still related, this is nothing but a tangent. Clock's argument is not whether the flaws validate or invalidate whether you should like the work, but that you should be aware of this flaws if you're gonna discuss or recommend said work.
  • CrimsonCrimson
    Give us fire! Give us ruin! Give us our glory!
    True, but my point was that the reason why people are hesitant to acknowledge a work's flaws when it comes to stuff they like is because it would make them look bad if they liked something despite some very serious flaws.

    What qualifies as serious flaws, is up for debate.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    I'd argue that it makes you look worse to not aknowledge said flaws, as it makes you not only a morally dubious individual, but a morally dubious individual with a lack of self awareness.
  • CounterclockCounterclock
    Belief
    "
    What qualifies as serious flaws, is up for debate."

    That is true, maybe I should add.

    -Disagrees with the core principle message of the piece of fiction-

    After all, making something sexist isn't necessarily a flaw if it's done on purpose.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    I want t ask something, and forgive any ignorance here, because I know shit about Death Note and my complete lack of interest in it still remains, but I see it's being called "sexist" because a female character is useless to the plot.

    I ask, then, urm...what gives, exactly? Is she like, completely weak and impotent? Or was she still a good character who just failed to affet the plot?
  • AHRAHR
    edited 2011-09-29 18:03:00
    JC: There are multiple female characters. Not counting the one killed off early on, as mentioned by INUH, the main one is Misa, 



    The supporting ones are Halle, Sayu and Takada,





    I can explain how each has problems, but I'm a tad lazy atm.

    I will take requests, though.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    OK, I have some understanding of this show and I know that Misa is like...Light's stalker or something? 
  • ClockworkUniverseClockworkUniverse
    OOOooooOoOoOOoo, I'm a ghoOooOooOOOost!
    Basically, all of them except Naomi Misora are annoying idiots or just useless, and she dies really quickly because she's about to end the plot.
  • AHRAHR
    edited 2011-09-29 18:09:27
    Misa is deeply in love with Light. Light is not in love with her. However, he pretends to be, and manipulates her. She is the stereotypical "idol" persona.

    Now, she could be written right, as a dark sort of femme fatale type, to contrast with her "refer to self in third person and be cute" persona, but...that doesn't happen. 

    She is VERY popular in Japan.

    So, anyways, she ends up contributing very little to the plot, and acts more of a "holder" when not being "cute." Basically, she holds the death note sometimes, and when Light needs to give it to someone else, he takes it, despite the fact that she took the shinigami eyes TWICE, which basically means her life was halved two times.

    The shinigami eyes basically let you see the name of any person you look at, which is what is required for the death note to work. But they are rarely put to use, and she is rarely useful, despite being the only person with said eyes.

    She never even goes all yandere killer on anyone's ass.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    oh.

    ah.

    got it.
  • ClockworkUniverseClockworkUniverse
    edited 2011-09-29 18:11:44
    OOOooooOoOoOOoo, I'm a ghoOooOooOOOost!
    I think the point of her characterization was to make Light less sympathetic. If she acted less cutesy, there would be less of that, and if she showed volition, he'd seem less manipulative.
  • AHRAHR
    I get the manipulation angle, but it seemed rather pointless, since it seemed pretty clear she'd love him regardless. :/
  • ClockworkUniverseClockworkUniverse
    OOOooooOoOoOOoo, I'm a ghoOooOooOOOost!
    Because it makes light look dickish.
  • AHRAHR
    edited 2011-09-29 18:15:01
    No, you misunderstand. I'm saying they completely under utilized it. It was a half-baked attempt, that could have worked a lot better if they just altered a few of the points.
  • ClockworkUniverseClockworkUniverse
    OOOooooOoOoOOoo, I'm a ghoOooOooOOOost!
    Ah.

    Well, fair enough on that point.
  • AHRAHR
    I think that Misa was a good idea, but lacked good execution. I mean, crazed fan following works amazingly well in something dark like Death Note. That's why Mikami was so fascinating to watch in action.

    Hell, I'd wager that Mikami really was just Misa with a penis, and a bit more experience (from the authors).
  • ClockworkUniverseClockworkUniverse
    OOOooooOoOoOOoo, I'm a ghoOooOooOOOost!
    Yeah, the authors weren't all that good early on. Hell, what happened to Naomi Misora could be seen as an even-worse version of what happened to Misa.

    By the way, did you read the manga or watch the anime?
  • AHRAHR
    Read the manga, watched parts of the animé, such as the finale, the foot washing scene, the potato chip scene and a compilation of SAKUJASAKUJOSAKUJO.
  • ClockworkUniverseClockworkUniverse
    OOOooooOoOoOOoo, I'm a ghoOooOooOOOost!
    Ah, okay.

    I asked because I've always felt like the anime botched [Light's death scene] in the end.
  • AHRAHR
    It was more dramatic, certainly. I thought the whole thing with Mikami was way more botched. Why?
  • ClockworkUniverseClockworkUniverse
    OOOooooOoOoOOoo, I'm a ghoOooOooOOOost!
    Well, I feel like giving Light [a peaceful death] kinda undermined the whole point of the scene. Him [dying in the middle of a temper tantrum any 3-year-old would be ashamed of] really brought home the point that he's really not supposed to be the sympathetic character here.
  • AHRAHR
    edited 2011-09-29 18:29:25
    Ah. I see. That makes sense. I forgot he went like that. Yeah. It was better in the manga.
  • CounterclockCounterclock
    Belief
    I liked the movie ending better.
  • AHRAHR
    I have not seen that yet! But I do know the ending...
  • ClockworkUniverseClockworkUniverse
    edited 2011-09-29 18:30:59
    OOOooooOoOoOOoo, I'm a ghoOooOooOOOost!
    On the other hand, the anime did make a lot of improvements. They streamlined the second half of the story, which was originally drawn out just so it could end on chapter 108.

    ^^That I haven't seen.
  • AHRAHR
    Yeah, but they got rid of the president subplot, right? 
  • ClockworkUniverseClockworkUniverse
    OOOooooOoOoOOoo, I'm a ghoOooOooOOOost!
    Did they? Huh...I guess they did.

    That wasn't terribly important, but I don't see why it was necessary to remove it. That arc was very streamlineable even without taking any plot points out.
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