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Zetta Ryouiki is getting fixed

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Comments

  • evilnekoevilneko
    edited 2011-08-07 00:34:52
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    This may just be ignorance on my part, but I still don't see how it qualifies as a trope. Why isn't there a trope about men wearing flannel button-up shirts and jeans, or women wearing kind of long-ish blouses and pants that come slightly above their ankles?

    Exactly my sentiment.
  • VorpyVorpy
    ☭Unstoppable Sex Goddess☭
    Gee, why all the hateboners for fanservice tropes?
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    Because the site is about cataloguing the trends and patterns that are used in media.

    Panty shots, wearing socks with a miniskirt, and fille fatale don't fulfil this purpose.
  • DonZabuDonZabu
    ^^ Because TV Tropes as a whole has become a lot more self-conscious lately, for better or worse.

    That's the truer answer.
  • VorpyVorpy
    ☭Unstoppable Sex Goddess☭
    ...yes they do. Because Fanservice shows and Fictional Porn use tropes too.
  • BobBob
    edited 2011-08-07 00:54:13
    ^^^I'm not seeing how "socks + miniskirt" constitutes a trope, either. Fille Fatale, while gross, is an actual character trait. Panty shots are a tool used by animators. Socks and miniskirts are just articles of clothing worn by certain characters. Why not make a trope about Japanese girls in sundresses or something, if clothing is apparently that relevant? Not to mention, they do fulfill that purpose, and they do it a hell of a lot better than Zetta whatever does.

    (please don't tell me that Japanese girls in sundresses is an actual trope)
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    edited 2011-08-07 00:53:22
    You can change. You can.
    I don't see why Fille Fatale doesn't count. I mean, stuff like Brick has it and it fits the setting and is obviously deliberate

    ^Or this. This post is more thorugh. 
  • VorpyVorpy
    edited 2011-08-07 00:56:54
    ☭Unstoppable Sex Goddess☭
    Nope, it's not.

    And I don't see how it's an invoked trope in many senses if a school uniform requires it indirectly or it's just how people dress

    I don't understand how wearing long socks with a skirt is an important theme or trope in character design

    Wearing long socks with a skirt should not be a trope if it's something that happens with no effort at all and can be applied to every single skirt wearing girl in the world, and the only way to avoid this is to not have legs, don't wear long socks (although there is that grading system that says BUT IT STILL COUNTS) or aren't humanoid.

    to be honest I have absolutely no good arguments to disagree with it.

    About the only thing I can think of that I can explain why I don't like it is because "It's too simple to invoke and use".
  • Scrye2Scrye2
    edited 2011-08-07 00:58:49
    Electric Boogaloo
    The fall down the rabbit hole is an important part in Alice In Wonderland because it's literally the transition between reality and a dream-like world, and at this point in the story, we have no idea if it's real or not. Once again, this is important to the story.

    Whether or not I can see Alice's undergarments during this scene in the movie adaptation is not. The only reasons they'd include this are because A: it'd just make sense considering how the physics and static camera angles work together and shouldn't really even be noticed, or B: To get you off.

    And that's why fanservice tropes get so much hate.
  • DonZabuDonZabu
    edited 2011-08-07 00:56:35
    >(please don't tell me that Japanese girls in sundresses is an actual trope)

    Well, they are worn in NGE at one point, and the name Zettai Ryouiki comes from a phrase within the series...

    -heads off to create the trope-
  • NovaNova
    edited 2011-08-07 00:58:13
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    I meant the pages, sorry, not the concept behind them. While they may be valid, there's a whole lot of creepy obsessive listing of every example going on. While examples are good, when people are paying this much attention to Fanservice tropes over other, more valid concepts.

    Look at the Panty Shot page, a page detailing examples of when we see a character's panties, as opposed to the Boisterous Bruiser, a common character archetype used in many media.

    ^^ Also.
  • VorpyVorpy
    ☭Unstoppable Sex Goddess☭
    Look at the Panty Shot page, a page detailing examples of when we see a character's panties, as opposed to the Boisterous Bruiser, a common character archetype used in many media.

    I can't compare and contrast either of those two because they have nothing to do with each other.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    edited 2011-08-07 01:05:27
    You can change. You can.
    I thought Boisterous Bruiser was split.
  • NovaNova
    edited 2011-08-07 01:08:14
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    Yes, you can. The concepts might not, but the amount attention paid to them is... equal. And yet one is describing a very common character archetype, and one is an obsessive list about people's panties.

    That is why people are annoyed by them. When Fanservice tropes receive equal attention to more commonly-used Tropes... And look at how many of them  are Anime and Videogame examples.

    I mean, the page is as long as the Crystal Dragon Jesus page, which is a page about fantasy religions that carry Christain undertones. I'm fairly sure Crystal Dragon Jesus is a) more important when trying to tell a story, and b) deliberately invoked a lot more to actually carry symbolism and themes within a story.

    And a fucking list of every time we see a character's panties is as long as pages like this. Now, remember that a Panty Shot is nearly never important to the story or the show at large. It's just there to pander to people who get turned on by it, as opposed to dealing with, say, characterization or themes within a story.

    ^ From/into?
  • BobBob
    The problem with fanservice tropes:

    *The amount of attention ronery nerds pay to them
    *The fact that they're pretty much useless / have no plot relevance whatsoever
    *The fact that most panty shots only last about, what, a second? How is that worth obsessing over?
    *The fact that, for the most part, they're really creepy

    Am I missing anything?
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    As in, different pages. You know, when a trope page is too long and the examples are split...
  • MalkavianMalkavian
    MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!
    Eh, I think fanservice tropes are worthwhile... they just need heavy monitoring and culling to make sure that what's there actually should be and not just there because Everybody remembers the stripper.
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    *The amount of attention ronery nerds pay to them
    *The fact that they're pretty much useless / have no plot relevance whatsoever
    *The fact that most panty shots only last about, what, a second? How is that worth obsessing over?
    *The fact that, for the most part, they're really creepy

    Yeah, that.

    @ Juan: Well, I can't find a second page, so...
  • DonZabuDonZabu
    edited 2011-08-07 01:26:34
    Cut the examples except for when the series references the idea in-series, whether by the characters, or in a meta context.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    edited 2011-08-07 01:19:19
    You can change. You can.
    So...how would you handle Everybody Remembers the Stripper? :p

    @ Juan: Well, I can't find a second page, so...

    It was more of a random observation, really, so eh.
  • MalkavianMalkavian
    MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!
    ^^Yeah, this is a good idea. I think fanservice tropes are inherently problematic because they'll always attract the creepiest in the even the best of us, but they shouldn't be destroyed. Just heavily regulated.

    ^Keep it to movies/comics/whatever that people remember for boobies? Like say Heavy Metal?
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    ^Keep it to movies/comics/whatever that people remember for boobies? Like say Heavy Metal?

    According to Wiki policy, I think that what would happen is that you'd keep the in-universe stuff in the troper page while the opinions would be put in TT.
  • StormtroperStormtroper
    edited 2011-08-07 03:02:27
    (please don't tell me that Japanese girls in sundresses is an actual trope)

    Somebody added that on YKTTW. Though there probably was more to the trope than that.

    Because the site is about cataloguing the trends and patterns that are used in media.

    Panty shots, wearing socks with a miniskirt, and fille fatale don't fulfil this purpose.

    Umm, I haven't read Fille Fatale, and I'm not sure about Zettai Ryouiki, but how is Panty Shot not a "trend or pattern used in the media"?
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    Umm, I haven't read Fille Fatale, and I'm not sure about Zettai Ryouiki, but how is Panty Shot not a "trend or pattern used in the media"?

    It's more than that, even.

    Tropes are devices and conventions that a writer can reasonably rely on as being present in the audience members' minds and expectations.

    If panty shots are present in your mind and expectations when you watch a show, then I would consider punching you in the nose and telling you to stop being a perv.
  • DYREDYRE
    edited 2011-08-07 03:15:19
     
  • evilnekoevilneko
  • DYREDYRE
    edited 2011-08-07 03:19:08
    Does it count if panty shots are in my mind when I watch a show... but only because they're always in my mind, regardless of if I'm watching a show or not?
  • ForzareForzare
    Till shade is gone, till water is gone, into the Shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath, to spit in Sightblinder’s eye on the last Day.
    "If panty shots are present in your mind and expectations when you watch a show, then I would consider punching you in the nose and telling you to stop being a perv."

    I dunno, if I watching Highschool of the Dead or something like that, I usually expect to see panty shots.
  • MalkavianMalkavian
    MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!
    Personally I don't get the appeal of panty shots. Honestly in mind they're just another article of clothing.
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