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Comments
I don't think anyone was arguing that the show wasn't good though.
Everyone agrees that it was good, if not great- the disagreement lies in both many of the tiny moments that should have supported the show, but didn't, like Hitomi's confession coming out of nowhere, and then there was an argument about whether the show encourages faith in a happy ending or not.
I will literally eat my hat if that show is proven to encourage looking out for a happy ending.
Apparently, the director said it wasn't meant to be a deconstruction or subversion of the magical girl genre. Take that as you like.
It feels like a failed deconstruction, but a passable examination of the genre.
I noticed that I never got around to posting the Production I.G. Kickstarter link here.
Madoka wasn't meant to be a deconstruction at all, Gen outright said at Sakura-Con that it wasn't meant to be a subversion or a revitalization of the genre.
And that is a good thing, because it would fail at being one.
I'd imagine a work would fail at being something its not trying to be, yeah
You would think so, yes.
IJBM: Madoka has gotten so much attention as a deconstruction of the magical girl genre but Uta∽Kata hasn't.
Facts about Madoka Magica:
It even has a ton of references to Kannazuki no Miko.
Things I know about Madoka:
*QB
*Once You Pop, You Can't Stop
*MORNING RESCUE
*WITCHES ARE ACTUALLY MAGICAL GIIIIIIRLS
I dunno, I thought Sailor Nothing was as much a rip-apart as the genre needed, but I don't watch much MG stuff anyway.
Yeah, but Madoka is infinitely better than Sailor Nothing, so there's that.
Never seen Madoka, probably never will.
Nothing gets a lot of hate for a lack of research about Japan and that it's a "troper work" (it really, really isn't, unless we're counting Eliezer Yudkowsky's work and raocow's LPs as troper stuff too), but it's very good for an amateur novel written in spare time.
I will grant that I am no literary analysis buff, I simply think it succeeds where a lot of other attempted "deconstructions" fail.
All I remember of Sailor Nothing is it trying way too hard to be dark, and ended up stupidly dark for that in a way that didn't support the overall narrative and felt really forced, and that the writing was definitely not of publishable quality.
I hated it on principle, of course, but I hated it on its own merits, too. That's more than a lot of other things can say.
"On principle"?
Also, I'd disagree that the darkness was overbearing, though it would've been if the story had stopped just a bit earlier.
That said, it has been about two years since I read the thing, I might not like it if I read it now.
To throw my two cents into the Madoka discussion: I'm with All Nines here in that I think it was a genuinely brilliantly designed show that did exactly what it set out to do, and I admire it for that fact. I also thought that it was an extremely fun show to watch, both from a dramatic and especially an aesthetic perspective.
That being said, I think that you're going to get a lot more out of Madoka Magica if you accept it as—thank you, Alex!—a kind of theatrical piece steeped in literary tradition rather than "a treatment of life." Specifically, a certain degree of familiarity with Goethe's version of Faust is essential, particularly with respect to Homura's relationship with Madoka. I've made almost a running joke out of saying, "Homura is Faust! Goddamnit!" but it's true: The last few episodes of Madoka Magica play out a lot like Goethe's play.
Now, Sayaka, on the other hand... she's Christopher Marlowe's Faust, minus the debauchery. Especially the end of her arc. And speaking of which, that train scene...
I generally hate overly dark things on principle. Out of all the things I've watched/read, only Madoka manages to avoid that, and that's only because Kyouko exists.
But nobody was arguing against that?
We were arguing about whether the show itself inspired faith that it would have a happy ending or not. Pretty much everybody agreed that it was a great show, and everyone only had minor problems with it.
There was one argument I had about something he said, plus I didn't like some of the themes and messages because they run against my personal taste, but I agree that it's a very well-crafted show.
Fuck, I should go to bed, I'm kind of annoyed at something now. Let me just state:
Everyone knows and agrees that Madoka is a good show, you don't have to pick a side to agree about that.
I just think it was decent.
It had lots of shit animation, it was hard to take the entire middle story arc seriously, and it was even harder to take the ending seriously. It's reasonably entertaining but it's not a masterpiece and its success is extremely annoying since it's causing SHAFT to spend their time making more Madoka stuff instead of more -monogatari adaptations.
^^ I wasn't trying to imply that. I was simply saying (or I guess failing to say) that his views aligned most with mine of anyone in the discussion.
Also, brief, only tangentially related observation: The last episodes of Madoka Magica and serial experiments: lain were... not dissimilar.
^ I will kindly disagree, although again, it's a matter of perspective.
Except for the animation part. Maybe it's because I was watching the later, cleaned-up versions of the episodes, but that show was downright gorgeous.
I don't know. It's like 1AM, let me be annoyed, it'll help bleed off any frustration that might linger to tomorrow.
^ That's fine. I'm not holding it against you.
It had good art direction and Gekidan Inu Curry did great work with the witch scenes. But there was QUALITY everywhere.
its success is extremely annoying since it's causing SHAFT to spend their time making more Madoka stuff instead of more Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei seasons.
Fixed
^^ I didn't notice anything terribly off-model myself, outside of places where it seemed to be used intentionally.
^ Win.
meguca
(You probably know what it is, but it showcases much of the QUALITY.)
It was a fine show. The stuff I didn't like is mostly what has been said here, namely:
-Green-haired plot device. Particularly because of how easy it would've been to actually make it make sense: Just have walk out of the hospital as Sayaka goes in, or vice-versa, it required exactly two seconds of screentime.
-Sayaka going full retard, in general. I can accept characters not being optimal decision makers (in fact, I sometimes resent people who expect them to), but everyone has a line, and Sayaka crossed mine and then went on and on and on.
-Sometimes it felt overly indulgent in its own "darkness". Like not being able to tell the Kyubeis to fuck off because they were responsible for every progress humanity ever did since the stone ages, or them saying "Hey, we're not in the wrong here, you totally consented" despite the fact that not even Johnny Cochran could argue that these girls are able-minded enough to sign a contract, or the aformentioned ordeal with Sayaka and whatsherface.
Overall, I liked it, but my favourite show of 2011 was probably Hyouge Mono.
La Paella Magica Meguca!
meduka meguca
lowercaps is important dammit