Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
If you have an email ending in @hotmail.com, @live.com or @outlook.com (or any other Microsoft-related domain), please consider changing it to another email provider; Microsoft decided to instantly block the server's IP, so emails can't be sent to these addresses.
If you use an @yahoo.com email or any related Yahoo services, they have blocked us also due to "user complaints"
-UE
If you use an @yahoo.com email or any related Yahoo services, they have blocked us also due to "user complaints"
-UE
Comments
Well, a lot of people probably do care who wrote it, and whatnot... but it's just I don't think that necessarily means it'll translate into sales for Psycho-Pass if it turns out that what Urobuchi is writing this time isn't similar to what made him so popular in the first place. And really, it's mostly that the director sounds like Yamakan, which is a great way to make your project fail.
So the team of bishounen and the obvious archenemy/bromance is totally by mistake?
I think what they're trying to do could be a success as long as what they're trying to say is "We're not changing our project to suit the market" and not "AVOID MOE AVOID BISHIE AVOID EVERYTHING". It seems to be the former, but there's still that condescending tone from the latter in it too.
^ Wasn't the last thing Yamakan wrote Fractale, which had a pretty moe main female character?
In other news: Girls und Panzer is Strike Witches minus fanservice. The heavens will weep with joy forever now.
I like this guy already.
Because he's exactly like those people who say that moe is the cancer killing the anime industry and turning it into nothing but a bunch of figma commercials pandering to otaku, and that anime should be all about mecha again, because that's somehow not exactly the same?
> Girls und Panzer is Strike Witches minus fanservice.
This sounds like it has potential.
> anime should be either all moe or all mecha
no
Commie's subs make Girls Und Panzer unwatchable. Although at least there's HorribleSubs.
Anyway, it does seem fun, although I'm pretty confident no military-themed cute girls doing cute things show will ever top Strike Witches.
Well I AM one of those people, minus the mecha part.
I'm not seeing why it has to be all mecha if it isn't all moe. I was under the impression that there were more than two kinds of anime.
But there are lots of shows without moe that you can watch (For a recent example both Jormungand and Jojo's just started less than a week ago). There will always be trends, hypermasculinity, mecha, moe, some you'll like and some you'll want to burn with the passion of a thousand suns but there will always be something you'll like almost every season.
^^^,^^ All I'm saying is... it's commendable to say you won't compromise your artistic vision to try to appeal to a certain demographic, but...
...so I get the impression that it's less "we want to create a good series that isn't restricted by what's currently popular" and more "EVERYTHING HAS TO BE GUNS, THERE IS NO ROOM FOR MOE AND BISHOUNEN."
Why can't stereotypically masculine stuff and stereotypically feminine stuff both be represented, and in moderation?
^^As far as I'm concerned, that's a lesser evil.
^That happens, it doesn't always work out well though.
^^ Lots of shows do that, PyschoPass definitely doesn't want to be one of them.
Officially skipped.
Jojo is fun and it's nice to see stuff in a style not in the general moe stuff that's popular.
Also, I don't have any problem with wanting to make something not moe, so long as you're not one of those jackasses who starts bitching about how dare there be something you don't like out there. or how it's 'the same' Especially since moe is such a ubiquitous stuff that it can be in everything from comedy to sci-fi to horror.
Also, c'mon Robotics; notes. Get some subs ooouuuutt.
Well, maybe they'll be here when I come back.
^^So you're okay with continuing vapidity so long as it refuses trends?
Hipster.
Is it just me, or does anyone else, like, not have much taste for anime comedy?
Well pun comedy falls flat a lot of time since it can't translate well the vast majority of the time. But set ups of funny characters getting thrown together and reacting to each other all depends on the cast and the writer. So go check out Yandere Kanojo, it's a great gag manga.
Also -
This seems like an incredibly specific type of show. Like... are there even more than 10 examples of this sort of thing?
I think, in most cases, designing something towards excessive masculinity or femininity is missing the point of making a good show. Anime is probably more gendered in a lot of respects than Western TV, and I think that's been working against it in the past few years. I think straight-faced hypermasculinity is as stupid as any excess of moe, but the latter has been a problem because it's been forcibly inserted into series that probably could have dialed it down. One recent example is Mouretsu Pirates, which I stopped watching because of the moe. Not just because it existed, but because it was taking significant amount of air time away from space piracy -- that is, the actual selling point of the series.
When the pacing of an otherwise good show is suffering so heavily because of the insistence of moe inclusion, I think there's a pretty significant problem with how storytelling is being approached. The irony is that you can look back into "pre-moe" stuff, find moe, and it's just fine. And that's largely because it's being used for specific purposes of characterisation rather than trying to hit a fanbase in their weak point.
So I guess moe isn't really the problem, just the symptom. But it can be a pretty telling one all the same. And I've said this before, but I find it bothersome how it seldom stops at "cute" and often becomes something of a fetish postal service. I don't know why anime should get off entirely free when we're largely so critical of other mediums being objectifying and sexist, and objectification is fuel moe runs on in terms of its fiscal value as a trend.
tl;dr Moe sucks because it's seen as a fast road to cash rather than as an expressive form of characterisation. I find it objectionable on the level of its, well, objectification, but also the way in which art is so powerfully subservient to the trend. This is always the case to some extent, of course, but this whole moe thing is beginning to resemble the video game industry. And that's terrible.
^^ Sky Girls, Strike Witches...yeah, I can't think of another one. Maybe AKB0048? Someone more familiar with this category should help me here.
And my problem with anime comedy is that it's so blatantly unsubtle and gaggy. Then again, the same could be said about a lot of other comedy...
The novel series is called "Miniskirt Space Pirates." The selling point is that it has cute pirate girls.
Strike Witches, Upotte, and now Girls und Panzer were really the only ones I had in mind. Sky Girls does not count since it is not about actual military equipment or people.
This isn't mutually exclusive with space piracy, though. Why waste long stretches of time (as in, handfuls of episodes) on non-piracy stuff when space shenanigans is what separates it from other stuff? It's just slow, and that's a significant pacing issue.
And like I said, we hold other mediums to higher standards -- why not anime, moe or not? If it were anything else, something like poor pacing would be a heavy strike against the work rather than excused as part of the actual point. Rules of pacing are universal, though -- if your plot moves slowly, there's ways to do that, and other narrative techniques if it moves more quickly.
It might just be that I'm not quite the anime consumer many others are here, but I think that lends some credence to what I'm trying to express. A lot of anime is making pretty significant narrative mistakes in the name of presenting us with attractive women, which comes exceedingly close to a legitimate criticism of pornography. I don't want to ruin anyone's fun, but I certainly do want anime to be better, and I'm sure it can improve without losing the appeal of whatever genre. It's just downright frustrating to watch something that looks like it has great potential only to find that it falls into standard pitfalls and traps for pandering purposes.
No, that's not what I'm saying. Just that going out of your way to be super masculine bothers me less (though it still bothers me) than going out of your way to insert moe elements and stupid fanservice.
Also what Alex said.
It is definitely about actual military equipment and military people.
Well, if you say it's not actually military equipment, then Strike Witches isn't either.
The characters in Strike Witches are based (loosely) on actual WW2 pilots, with the designs for their Striker Units being based on their planes. The weapons they use are actual guns. The designs of the Neuroi are based on actual concepts for experimental Nazi planes and such.
Likewise, Upotte's characters are anthropomorphic versions of actual military guns, and the characters in Girls und Panzer operate real tanks.
Meanwhile, everything in Sky Girls was just made up for the show. Except for the Vic Viper, I guess. But that still doesn't count, obviously.
Moe as an art style I have pretty much no problems with, Moe as a genre of show, existing for the sole purpose of "look how cute these girls are", is pretty lame.
Incidentally, this is the reason I've yet to watch K-on!
The swamp of fighting anime that are essentially just "Dragonball Z but with [x]!" are of course, no better. Neither are overblown tits 'n gore anime like Highschool of the Dead.
It's mostly "that writer that puts his characters in shitty situations and causes angst and despair and darkness and stuff" rather than "best writer ever" (though Madoka did have a happy-ish ending anyway, which a lot of people bitch about as being nonsensical)
Huh? At what point in time?
If you're referring to episode 14 where she hugs Kirito's arm cause she's shocked about her guildmaster being, well, yeah, i'm pretty sure that isn't "unable to stand without leaning on him" and more "I don't want to let go of my boyfriend when he's under the threat of system administrator," or something.
And well I would call "meatshielding her boyfriend by running in the way of the system administrator's insta-death attack against game logic" as pretty much the opposite of "unable to stand because she's a crybaby"
Quoted for truth.
I just want to say All-moe is not the same as all-mecha. Moe restricts which genres can be successfully presented. Mecha doesn't. Mecha means we have a show and there's robots in it. They don't actually need to be anti-war or space opera or monster of the week. They do fall in certain pandering pitfalls but some can actually break the mold and delve into many other genres.
The same could be said about moë, though. Moë characters could be in all sorts of shows, just as giant robots could.
A moe character does not make a moe show. Or I think every show would be moe.