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Comments
When I started playing Smash, the first thing I learned was how to get out of the way of stuff.
It was only later that I learned (at least in Melee) things like the down+B, up+B, side+B, etc..
Anyway:
IJBM: the second fire drum pattern in Blackout Basement in DKC1.
>Fighting games do tend to do it in obtuse ways, though.
Only the really complex things like hyper combos, but a lot of games have a level of intimacy that most players don't get involved with. There's nothing stopping you from playing normal-easy and playing on a basic level.
So I've been thinking about what makes real-time combat systems good. I think I've nabbed the core element -- agency.
Whatever one's thoughts on the likes of Call of Duty and Halo, think about how they differentiated themselves from previous FPS games. CoD introduced limited scope mechanic as a standard element of gameplay, and Halo introduced the grenade button and consistently-available close combat attacks. One other thing CoD did really well was in ensuring that weapons were versatile. As the games have progressed, each franchise has played off the successes of the other and become -- at least in mechanical gameplay terms -- stronger for it.
What these changes come down to, though, is allowing the player to do what they want when they want in any given combat scenario. If someone's in your face, you use the melee key to punish them; if you have a good grenade opportunity, there's a particular key you can use; if your enemy is outside the standard range of your weapon, you use the ironsights. Compared to late 90s FPS games, these are pretty huge leaps. Consider Half-Life, where there's a melee weapon, a small handful of versatile slug weapons, grenade slots and a larger selection of heavily specialised weapons. You have to be constantly cycling through your inventory for the right tool for the job, whereas modern FPS games give you all that stuff all the time, focusing the gameplay experience.
I used that example because I think it illustrates the point well, as it's one step removed from real-time close combat games but all the same principles apply. Here's another comparison, a bit closer to "home" so to speak:
Dark Souls and Skyrim.
In Dark Souls, two items can be equipped on each hand, and the D-pad cycles between those items depending on the direction you press. In Skyrim, you can have one item equipped to each hand, or a single two-handed item equipped. Point goes to Dark Souls -- in that game, I can quickly move between different weapons, shields and magical abilities insofar as I've set the gear up before a battle in my equipment slots.
In Dark Souls, there's a button that allows you to switch between using your main hand item with one hand or two hands. Skyrim ensures that every weapon is either one-handed or two-handed, and you have to go into the inventory to cycle between weapons. Point goes to Dark Souls.
In Dark Souls, the parry function allows me to combine defense and offense into a single action. In Skyrim, I can only attack or defend, with nothing in between. Point goes to Dark Souls.
In Dark Souls, the dedicated dodge mechanic ensures that combat is mobile, but it also allow me to dodge around and reposition for a better angle of attack, being another facet of the defense/offense combination concept. In Skyrim, my movement speed is slowed down by attacking, and there is no dodge function. Point goes to Dark Souls.
In Dark Souls, the distances and timings of attack animations are very clearly distinguished and easy to learn, allowing a much finer grasp of combat and more skill to be invested in general gameplay. In Skyrim, the combat animations are the opposite, with odd timings and being difficult to follow in terms of distance. Point goes to Dark Souls.
Player reaction to the Dark Souls combat system has been extremely positive, and it's easy to see why -- it gives players versatility and the agency that comes with it, making combat a much more thoughtful and skilful process, equal parts cerebral calculation and twitch skill. You can simply do what you like and see if it works, whereas the combat system of Skyrim ensures that there's no benefit to a tactic that isn't running up to them and hammering the attack key.
I suppose this applies to most systems in games. It's one thing to have a world of great agency, but that can only go so far if the core gameplay is restrictive. After all, there's no reason a more sophisticated system can't be used alongside an open world -- just look at Mount and Blade. Obviously, there are exceptions when I claim that agency in systems is a good thing, as you don't want players to feel versatile or powerful in a horror game, but I think it's a rule that has very general application.
I agree with you for the most part, though comparing a game that's best known for having a good combat system to a game that's...not, almost seems unfair :P
That said,
This point is wrong. Skyrim has the shout slot, serving much the same purpose as grenades in the FPS games you mentioned above, and also allows for up to ten hotkeys you can equip weapons, spells, potions, or whatever the hell you want to. So of the two games, it's far easier to change your loadout around in Skyrim.
And in fact, this point is an area in which Dark Souls should not (and for that matter, does not) have a sense of agency. You have to set your gear up before you rush into battle. And if you don't, the game is perfectly willing to kill you, because that's entirely your fault.
Well, I suppose you could argue that that is a sense of agency, but not in the same sense that you were talking about in terms of using the guns in Halo for melee via pistol-whipping. You could argue that it's a sort of "negative agency," in which you aren't rewarded for doing your job right so much as punished for doing it wrong. Perfect for a survival horror action game.
I'm playing Skyrim on PC, albeit without updates, and I didn't think it had any hotkeys -- just a favourites menu for items. The Shouts do add some versatility, but their use is limited due to the reasonably lengthy cooldowns.
There's also the fact that Dark Souls has more diversity in weapons. Being able to switch at will between a sword and an axe makes a large different in terms of timing, animation and often damage. In Skyrim, these weapons are nearly identical in application. The very linear gear progression of Skyrim and the perk system also means that you're likely to find one option superior to the other in almost every case, anyway, whereas Dark Souls provides legitimate use for any kind of weapon you have the stats to handle. My divine claymore is a pretty great generalist, but some enemies are hit harder by the lightning spear, which is often a better option in narrow confines anyway -- especially given the physical reaction of weapons to the general environment.
Mouseover something in the favorites menu (or maybe in the inventory itself? I've never actually checked that), then press a numbered key.
Yeah, that kinda bugs me about Skyrim. There are essentially three types of weapons, two of which are only differentiated by what hand you hold them in. Maybe that's why I like playing a mage.
i'm gonna go get VVVVVV soon
God I want to play this game again.
This part gave me nightmares as a kid.
I really need to find my collector's edition thing with that and Ocarina.
@Forzare
I love Majora's Mask
Majora's Mask is and will probably always be my favorite Zelda game. And one of my favorite games overall.
Same.
Ah, I got Majora's Mask as a Club Nintendo Reward. I should finish that game. I haven't gone into the Great Bay Temple yet.
Reached The Kid's warpzone in Super Meat Boy. FUCK THAT WARPZONE! How the hell are you supposed to beat that!?
It was also the first game where I really noticed the music, I think.
I had the Clock Town theme stuck in my head for years.
VVVVVV is so fun!
And then Eelektross reaches Doing Things The Hard Way/Veni, Vidi, Vici.
^^^ The Last 6 Hours one is one of the best videogame tracks ever in my opinion
^ Definitely. That and Oath to Order.
IMO, Majora's Mask simply did everything right in every area. As a standalone game, as a sequel, in terms of level design, character design, sidequests, music...everything.
It did have some flaws, especially the save system. And the dungeons weren't as stellar as expected in a Zelda game, except for maybe the Stone Tower
Honestly, I liked the save system.
Dungeon design is a fair point. I was mostly thinking of the world as a whole when I said "level design."
The save system was my only real problem with the game that I can remember. And even that wasn't terrible.
Just a little inconvenient, and I feel like it fit with the game's feel.
Admittedly, it's been years since I really played it, but I loved everything.
I regret nothing.
To this day, I've yet to beat Majora's Mask. I have it on the Virtual Console and everything, but I've never gotten around to getting past Ikana Canyon.
Fucking Redeads.
Redeads were creepy until I realized that I could make them dance party.
MOS-KAU MOS-KAU
I never bought it on Virtual Console because I still have my N64 ^_^
Now I really want to play MM, but I'm not in the mood to tackle the wirepocalypse that is my basement to get the N64 out, and I can't find the game disc.
My N64 was lost to the ether years ago. :c
On the subject of ports and Zelda, does anyone think they're going to give Majora's Mask an enhanced remake for the 3DS, too?
That game deserves it. More than any other Nintendo game.
As long as they make it possible to actually beat Gyorg, I'm fine with that.