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Comments
Argh, either War of the Roses doesn't like my computer or they have A LOT of work to do on the beta. My frame rate is shit on even low settings and there's this omnipresent audio stutter. Also, they're still using Mount and Blade's retarded controls for melee attacks.
On the other hand, the Coat of Arms customization is pretty cool. And so is executing someone. Hell, BEING executed is pretty rad.
^Say it with a straight face that Mount and Blade's style of melee attack system wasn't deeply flawed.
It wasn't deeply flawed.
In fact, I applaud it for taking advantage of the mouse for the sake of both directional attacks and parries. While it could stand to be more fine-tuned, I found it reasonably easy to use from when I first played the game some years ago. There's not many ways to handle directional attacks without specific key bindings, and that would get very cumbersome very quickly -- imagine if you needed four different attack keys. But using the mouse and a single attack key means that everything can be contained within two functions and a single movement of the player's hand.
The flaws are very shallow, in fact -- the idea is great, and the execution is pretty good if spotty in places. If I were to point out any core design flaws in the system, it would be the lack of a dodge key for the sake of a jump key, of all things.
Jedi Academy and Jedi Outcast, in their time, also used an alternative combat system to great praise. Like Mount & Blade, it had directional attacks, except they were tied to the direction you were moving rather than a mouse-driven selection. So if you were moving to the left, your attack would come from the right and travel left.
These games strive to make combat much more engaging through the need to consider collision according to angle of attack. This is an absolutely fantastic idea for the kind of games they are, because button mashing rots your brain like Twilight fanfic. It's about using simple but versatile systems to produce emergent gameplay, where players are given a set of tools and have to work out how to best make use of them. And given those most medievalish combat games are generally limited to light attacks, heavy attacks and blocking, games like Mount & Blade and War of the Roses provide a much-needed respite from such limited and boring systems.
Don't get me wrong; I can think of many ways to improve the system. But the core idea is solid and the execution isn't half as bad as you say, so it gets my approval.
Okay, after a bit of messing around with my video card's settings the audio and frame rate issues are gone, the game is playable now.
I also just unlocked a custom class and whoaaaaaaaaa this load out editor is awesooomeee.
Though I can't see what my weapons look like until I equip them. Bug fix report time.
So, this happened.
Wait, so the (mainstream) video game industry has managed to create a system that instantly removes the equivalent of Harlequin novels/Fifty Shades of Grey wannabes and this is a bad thing?
In the end Valve/Steam is still a private company, not an indie mecca for every single game somebody thinks should be made. I mean, it makes it easier for indie developers to gain exposure and make money, but you can't just expect them to accept your idea because it hasn't been done before (though I'm assuming there are many games like they're describing if you look hard enough). They can't really get angry at a company that's just upholding its rules...
What was their game about aside from containing sexual content anyways?
As much as I dislike 50 Shades of Grey and think it's a very fucked up book, I think the fact that it got published is actually a good thing because it means that we're trascending more and more of the original taboos that restrain fiction and art.
That and the fact that the premise of Steam Greenlight is basically that people get to choose. And they didn't. It was Valve that chose the game's fate. Which makes Valve somewhat unreliable on the matter.
Yes they can. And anyway, the rule in this case was pretty vague.
Isn't this sort of thing against Steam's Terms and Conditions though?
I'll admit I'm being judgemental and that everything and anything has the right to be published, but they can't make Valve/Steam publish it if it's against their Terms and Conditions (which seems to be the case if you read through the comments).
^ They can? I get that the rule is somewhat vague, but they did agree to it (Otherwise I'm not sure how they got the game on Greenlight in the first place).
To be honest, I would have been much more surprised if Steam had actually started allowing porn games with Greenlight, quality or no.
That's the point of the article, though. Going "Hey, that's kinda a double standard, don't you think? Allowing violent content, but sex, oh no. Never mind that most other forms of media have tried to move beyond that taboo."
Greenlight is an extension of Steam, which is an extension of Valve. I'm assuming either Steam/Valve has a more detailed ToC for conduct on Steam as a whole, but I can't seem to find it on their site.
This is the best I could do:
Okay, so nothing about sexual content or conduct, so maybe these guys do have a point.
Personally, I would REALLY not have porn games on Steam based on 1. it doesn't reflect well on gamers 2. a lot of them are incredibly creepy and bad anyway.
DYRE's point is that you don't have to agree with the rules, even if you registered. Maybe the net benefit is bigger than the disadvantage that the rule provides.
But it's still silly because the point is that Valve did make a promise that the userbase would be the one that decides what gets on the Steam store, not Valve. Otherwise, there's no point to Greenlight. I understand if a game gets lots of downvotes, if the game is violating the law in some level (Copyright, for instance) or if it involves really unsavoury shit like hate speech (Not racism. Just hate speech and shit like that) but this game doesn't do any of these things. At least from what we're told.
I'd qualify "depiction of rape for the sake of arousal" for this, and with porn games it's better safe than sorry with that sort of thing.
Does the actual game involve any rape, implicit (Not as in, "it's not shown" but as in "It's clearly rape but the story doesn't treat it like such") or otherwise? I skimmed the article so I wouldn't know.
I... What makes you think that the game has any rape in it? At all? I mean, otherwise you're saying "Porn games should never exist ever because they might have rape in them", which... well, I don't really much like porn, but saying that they shouldn't be on a service because they might have rape is kinda dumb. And nothing I read in the article gave me any hints that anything at all in it has to do with rape.
Well, on the current game submission page for greenlight porn is explicitly not allowed. It has been changed for the fee, so let me search for a copy of the older version and see if the porn part is still there.
Just like how the existence of porn movies and erotica reflect badly on every person who watches movies or reads books, right?
^^ Well, that. It seems like you linked the wrong page though...
You might not agree with it but you still have to follow it, and if you don't you're going to have to deal with the fact that you may be penalized if caught.
It works on my end, maybe you have to be logged in for it to work.
Well, can you be absolutely certain that the game doesn't contain rape or sexual harassment in any form? Given the genre and the wide variety of things that are sexual harassment/rape, I don't think any benifit of the doubt is allowed in this case.
This is ignoring the overring creepiness of porn games, and porn in general which I think is a necessary evil at best, and most of those who play them. The reason why Valve isn't allowing this is because they don't want to look bad by enabling this.
In society's eyes, no. In the case of video games and animated works, yes.
Honestly, I'm not keen on porn games on Steam, myself, but what bothers me is the principle and the idea behind it.
If GL is about giving the power of choice to customers so that they can choose what games they want to play, Valve taking that away without having stated earlier a condition that allows them too, then what does that say about the project itself and its validity as an indie game enabler? I mean, in the end it all comes to that.
Valve didn't think this through and they didn't think of that particular scenario. And while I can accept fallibility, I can't accept the idea that they just shrugged it off and went on their merry way with no explanation whatsoever. Mostly because it's a sacrifice of ideals (From a company that has been constantly pushing ideal situations for gamers, like easy online distribution and mainstream F2P games) for a possible business play with them wishing to save face.
Well yeah but you're still allowed to be angry about it. - shrug -
By that logic, how am I not certain that any of the other shooters or whatever games on Steam don't have rape? Or, to be somewhat less extreme, how am I not certain that any of the shooters on Steam doesn't involve neo-nazism endorsement?
I think it's ridiculous to claim that the genre of the game has to determine its contents. The game doesn't have to have sexual harassment because it's porn, because porn does not necessarily involve such. If it was ever explicilty said, then I would agree with you, but not doing things because there might be a risk is not only dumb from a creative point of view, it's also bad from a business POV too.
Okay, does anybody know what this game was about aside from the graphic sex? Like a plot summary or something? No real reason, just curious.
^ Agreed that this will hurt Valve/Steam's brownie points with gamers.
Please link me to where someone from valve actually said this and not some game journalist, because I saw greenlight as a way for valve to offload sorting through the shit to the consumer and give indie devs a better chance at getting on steam.
How so?
Half of the participants in this discussion would be a good place to start.
Okay, I've only skimmed this conversation, but I have two things to say about it: