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Comments
Come on, it's not that bad. The articles tend to be fairly decently written by Internet standards, and I think they're entertaining and interesting. Matter of opinion, I guess.
>There's also the Troper's love of X TREME EXXAGERATION FOR EMOTIONAL AFFECT, If you don't cry reading this comment you have no soul, pointlessly using egregious when there are better words just for the sake of potholing to the drinking game, the continued existence of TT, and I'm sure I'll think of other things I dislike about tvtropes.
>EDIT: Oh yes, Nightmare fuel pages of both varieties.
OK, yeah, I actually agree with everything in this post; all that stuff does suck. I can't deny that TV Tropes has a number of problems.
>Again, no one is forcing people to read it. But what current site policy is doing is forcing people to not write it.
>Totally the same thing, right?
Not really. The wiki exists for the readers, not the tropers. It's a collaborative project, not a forum.
BaronGrackle, we're not "underemphasizing" Anime on the Mirror Wiki. We're just not giving it the massive over-emphasis you're used to seeing on TV Tropes. In short, we're treating Anime the same way the Japanese treat it: as if it were just another bunch of cartoons.
There's a difference.
The only reason it's listed separately from Western animation is because it's a different tradition with a different fandom, so the tropes tend to be slightly different.
Sure, I realize that's the official, stated reasoning behind separating out Anime from the rest of the cartoons. We just don't agree with the reasoning.
And you really don't treat it "basically the same way", because the "different traditions/different fandom" argument could be applied to separate out British animation from American, French from German, and so on and so forth. They all have different traditions and different fandoms... so why don't you see French cartoons getting their own category?
And if its a different medium, as I've also heard argued, then why aren't animated television shows separated out from other animated short subjects, like animated feature length films are? And why are feature length Anime lumped in with Anime short subjects, instead of included in a special "Feature Length Anime" category, since its so different?
No... despite the official reasons, I (and many others like me... I'm just the guy stupid enough to say things publically) believe that the reason for the over-emphasis of Anime on TV tropes lies not with official policy but with the vocal and hostile nature of the more enthusiastic members of Anime fandom present on the wiki.
Its no secret that TV Tropes has a large and amazingly vocal population of wild-eyed Anime fanatics (and I do use that word intentionally... and am an Anime fan... a fact that will surprise people, no doubt) who have a tendency to cast any non-worshipful opinion on the subject of Japanese cartoons as "bashing". I've seen these people claim that a Trope concept that, as far as we know, originated in Ancient Grecian literature, and claim that "the West cannot fully grasp it", or even name it.
And the best proof of this is what happens when you suggest a renaming of "Nakama".
So Eddie being an Anime fan or not is irrelevant, really. Is all about the inmates running... or at least heavily influencing the running of... the asylum.
^^^ That is an argument I find legitimate, actually.
^^Yeah, amazing how often I've seen my counter-arguments brushed aside with "You just hate Anime" or something similar, as if its impossible for one to be critical of how Anime is handled on TV Tropes, only a hater.
Every time I've seen the "used different tropes entirely" argument, I point out how many so-called "Anime Tropes" have non-Anime animated examples, which utterly destroys the "entirely different argument". The number of truly Anime-exclusive tropes can be counted on both hands, I am willing to bet.
And let us please be honest: Nakama is not renamed because, in the words of Madrugada, every time someone brings it up it causes a "shitstorm", and the mods don't want to deal with it. The "shitstorm" in question being the hail of angry posts from Anime fen who get violently offended at the very idea that Nakama be renamed.
^Then why don't we separate out musical examples into their various cultural categories? Why not separate EVERYTHING into their various cultural categories.
I'm sorry, but you're making a Special Pleading argument, and those are fallacious for a reason.
And you're assuming I think that's a bad idea.
^^No, I'm assuming that *I* think its a bad idea, because it overcomplicates things.
^ Speaking of assuming, who said I don't like Anime? When did anyone *other* than someone who disagrees with me say I don't like Anime?
If I were inclined to lie about anything, it wouldn't be that. I can't see how lying about my enjoying Anime would benefit me anything.
Granted I'm not some wild-eyed fanatic who views the entire world through Anime-colored glasses, either.
Yeah, amazing how often I've seen my counter-arguments brushed aside
with "You just hate Anime" or something similar, as if its impossible
for one to be critical of how Anime is handled on TV Tropes, only a hater.
Dude, I've been criticizing how damn ubiquitous anime is since I got on
TVT. It's all because of the entry pimps. And it's not like there aren't entry
pimps for other stuff. Anime is just a genre. I've seen Buffy and Avatar being
entry pimped even more than most anime, so...all you're doing is complaining
about a relatively lesser problem. The moment I realized this I stopped
complaining about it.
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Every time I've seen the "used different tropes entirely"
argument, I point out how many so-called "Anime Tropes" have
non-Anime animated examples, which utterly destroys the "entirely
different argument". The number of truly Anime-exclusive tropes can
be counted on both hands, I am willing to bet.
used in anime. That doesn't mean that they are exclusive to anime. And there's
the fact that as anime grows popular, more people in the west are willing to
take inspiration from it. Which means more anime tropes out of context. It's
the nature of media, really.
And let us please be honest: Nakama is not renamed because, in the
words of Madrugada, every time someone brings it up it causes a
"shitstorm", and the mods don't want to deal with it. The
"shitstorm" in question being the hail of angry posts from Anime fen
who get violently offended at the very idea that Nakama be renamed.
I've always said that every trope name that is nothing but a reference
should be revised. And that we should keep the redirects. But it won't happen.
And I learned to deal with it. the wiki has wrongs, yes, but it's not bad. And
those mistakes can be corrected if we pool our resources together.
"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-fareast-language:
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"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-fareast-language:
ES-CO">^Then why don't we separate out musical examples into their various
cultural categories? Why not separate EVERYTHING into their various
cultural categories. mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;
color:black;mso-fareast-language:ES-CO">
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mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black;mso-fareast-language:
ES-CO">Because we do? At least, we do with our music specific tropes...
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@Vorpy: That's precisely what I do, actually.
@Juan: When I realized it and stopped complaining, I started my own wiki. Same problem, different solutions.
As for "originated with Anime", in a lot of cases, the non-Anime animated examples predate the flood of Anime into western culture. Are you saying that the Flintstones, to pick a name out of the air, was influenced by Anime? And you'll excuse me, but you said "different tropes entirely". That, to me at least, implies that you were saying that the tropes in question were exclusive to anime.
Agreed. The whole thing slightly reminds me of the "Jonas Quinn" rename back in the day, though (thankfully) Janitor stepped in and renamed that one anyway.
@Juan: When I realized it and stopped complaining, I started my own wiki. Same problem, different solutions.
As a site that doesn't want any of those pesky opinions, I find it hard to believe that popular opinion is what's holding them back.
And to be honest the Grandfather Clause is a horrible excuse. A policy's being good or bad has nothing to do with its age.
So why hasn't Nakama been renamed to something nice and bland yet, like "Group of Friends Who Are Like Family"?
I don't.