TV Tropes - Enforced Crapsaccharine World

Turtle

It doesn't even close to solve my biggest problem with the site.

It doesn't have natter or fun trope names, nor does it present actual tropes like the main pages do.

It goes from "the tropes, plain and simple" (bad) straight to "my
opinions on the thing" (bad), skipping right over "the tropes and what
people think about them" (good).

If I want reviews, I'll go to the million or so other sites made specifically for reviews.
"Is Reviews used to any great extent?" is also a valid question.

ClockworkUniverse

^^No, but if all the people talking about how they weren't allowed to have opinions used it, it would be.

^Re:Natter:Sometimes fun to write, makes the site a trainwreck to read.

Re:Fun Trope names: They're allowed, but they have to be reasonably indicative.

Re:Reviews not presenting tropes: The main pages do. So you can check the main pages for tropes, and reviews for opinions. How is that difficult?

Turtle

Natter is as fun to read as it is to write, and as long as it's not actually malicious (personal attacks) then it's fine with me.

Fun trope names and indicative trope names are almost always mutually exclusive.  There are only so many trope names that can be clear, concise, and witty all at once.  I tend to prioritize concise and witty, because clear is covered by the descriptions and especially by Laconic Wiki.

I want to read opinionated trope entries, not tropes and opinions separately.

GLORIOUSLeader

Natter is as fun to read as it is to write, and as long as it's not actually malicious (personal attacks) then it's fine with me.

Subjectivity is subjective.

Turtle

It also makes TV Tropes worth reading.

ClockworkUniverse

1:You're simply wrong. It makes the wiki look like it's talking to itself. That's not what wikis are supposed to look like. Hell, even ED, possibly the least formal wiki ever, didn't have a natter problem.

2:Clear needs to take priority if you want people to know what the hell they're being linked to. If I have to read an article to know what the "durpendorf effect" or whatever is just so I can understand a sentence, something's gone horribly wrong.

3:I doubt you're in the majority there.

Turtle

Making the wiki look like it's talking to itself is what separates it from other sites.

Why would anyone want to know what they're being linked to?  Part of the fun of the site is seeing a trope and thinking "I wonder what that is?" and then clicking on it and reading the article.

I'm well aware that I'm in the minority, but that doesn't really affect my thoughts on the matter.

ClockworkUniverse

1:Not in a good way.

2:Where's the fun in having to read another page in order to comprehend the sentence you're reading?

3:Fair enough.

Turtle

1.  I disagree on what is "good," then.

2.  Again, it's part of the fun of the wiki.  The site wouldn't be nearly so popular if not for its addictive nature.  I find the site much less addictive if I'm not curious about the links I click.  Because if I'm not curious, I tend to not click them at all.

ClockworkUniverse

1:Again, fair enough.

2:It's possible to create curiosity without resorting to incoherence.

Turtle

Then I guess the folks responsible for names like "Tyrant Takes The Helm" and "Bad News Irrelevant News" are really poor at creating curiosity.

Thorn14

I too am annoyed by this.

I think actually my thread was the one mentioned in the no complaint thread.

I made a thread called "Gaming disappointments" or something of the sort, and it was deleted.

I guess everything has to be super happy fun sugar time.

Hatter

Vorpy's idea intrigues me. Something bitter, cynical and dark - yet informative - needs to take ED's place as a satirical wiki, but with more of a focus on the pop culture that raised us. We'd continue the sarcastic, bitter tradition of reviewers like the Nostalgia Critic, Yahtzee and he who is called Spoony. We'd bring media to its knees, and execute it with the axe of sardonic humor.

It'll never happen.

Tnu1138

Wow I'm agreeing wit h Thorn this is something yeah the Wiki is becoming a Sugar Bowl and the fora as well I think there needs to be a better balance and for that there needs to be someone keeping Eddie in check since Janitor left.

MillerCross

Yeah, because complaining will never lead to shitstorms, rite?

Thorn14

Its better than enforced fake happiness.

And you can give legitimate criticisms without turning into a whining troll.

ClockworkUniverse

^But we're not supposed to gush about stuff either. Complaining just gets treated more harshly because it leads to more shitstorms.

inkblot

^ Yes, but mindless gushing is so tolerated on the wiki that allowing it may as well be wiki policy, and I know for a fact that several major contributors want it that way.

Hell, I wouldn't be surprise if my cleanup of the Homestuck page got reverted.

Thorn14

I love TTGL but the gushing on the page is almost embaressing.

Elbeem

Why is it that whenever the question of "Why hasn't Nakama been renamed yet" is raised, the answers are always "Screaming Anime Fans" and "Grandfather Clause" with no mention of high Inbounds, high Wicks, and lack of misuse?

You know, the three things that make up the first bullet under "When not to rename a trope" in the TRS Trope Renaming guidelines?

As someone who has voted for renaming several japanese-named tropes and against others, with the deciding criteria nearly always relating to that specific bullet, the fact that the default assumption that only a raging anime fan would vote against renaming Nakama is frustrating.

ClockworkUniverse

^^^If that gets reverted, you just bring it up on Ask The Tropers and the mods can fix that for you, just like they would if mindless bashing got restored after cleanup.

^^It's a wiki, you know...

Vorpy

It'll never happen.

I'll feel free to quote you on this when I learn how to install Mediawiki and find some people to add articles on it.

Vorpy

And also, concerning the whole "If we can't have complaining then why do THEY get gushing?"

It's because gushing doesn't invite descriptive ways to rape or kill your favorite character, or how you want to blindfold all of your fellow fans and kill them with a firing squad because of how much you enjoy their company.

TL;DR people go too far in their conquest of hatred when allowed to edit a wiki where people can see what they write.

Turtle

...and that's not totally harmless and will clearly cause people to take their feelings to such extremes in real life...?

Vorpy

Ah, the bullshit "It doesn't matter in real life" excuse again. Bitching and complaining about things on the internet doesn't matter in real life either, so it's okay to keep it off of TV Tropes.

MillerCross

Have you ever read the Complaining About Shows you don't like? It was full of whiny wannabe 4Channers claiming for the head of X writer because he wrote X pice of shit. 

It gets boring after you see it repeated ad nauseaum, you know?

We don't want that. I don't give two tugs of a dead dog's cock if you hate a show. 

At least Gushing is trim. whenver a show was mentioned, it was two paragraphs screaming about the rape of their childhood, then clamoring for the head of X character everyone likes except the poster and then two-10 bullet points with nothing but agreements.

It was a waste of serverspace, full of natter and nothing but a circlejerk where trolls jerked to each other's hate.

Thorn14

When does disliking something become honest complaints and turn into trolling?

JackButler

When the people who run the place disagree with you.

Vorpy

When people who don't get their way, get their say.

JackButler

Or that.