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Comments
Also, it's more about the use of firepower, especially non-lethal firepower, that is part of what makes Nanoha iconic.
I don't think so? I think there might have been a mention of something along the lines of giving Magical Daisy her own show so people would know what magical girls were and the mascots wouldn't have to explain that bit as much.
Hibiki is also seen as profoundly naive that everyone intentionally tries treat her with as little respect as they can get away with, even though it's up to the fourth season. And that's just her friends.
Nanoha is somehow so trusted by her friends and family that even in the first season they let her disappear for days and days to deal with people they never met, and don't even get upset enough at her lack of explanations to need an apology.
That's more of a consequence of the setting rather than characterization, surely. And she's far from anything that could be considered "iconic".
And she has her own upbringing. She's lucky it's been smooth.
That it's specifically magical firepower is a consequence of the setting, but it's a principle that can be translated to other settings. Essentially, it's a combination of maintaining the strategic upper hand while being open to diplomatic dialogue and expressing firmness without a sense of aggression at the same time.
And I dunno about you but I find her pretty iconic and it seems quite a lot of other people do (or at least did some years ago since the anime fandom is kinda bad at long-term series loyalty).
She never exactly demonstrates intelligence beyond the usual idealistic drivel Hibiki would think of, and literally solves all her problems by shooting at things, which doesn't exactly run on higher level reasoning.
It's stupid convenience that requires others to act as if they don't realize she's literally nine years old, considering that these are characters who also don't know what she actually does what she's capable of.
That's a poor argument for calling her "iconic" when it's only ever relevant to her because of the setting. It's an actual cliche for super powered people to avoid killing their opponents, so even if she could hypothetically be transplanted to a setting where magical power is lethal, it would hardly make her stand out.
It's more that hardly anything achieves enough to actually qualify for "iconic" status.
They eventually find out, actually. And they're okay with it. Not everyone becomes a drama-bomb over stuff like this.
I just said that the iconicness is NOT based in her specific setting, even though it of course presents that way because it has a setting. The same principle that she applies can be easily extended to other settings, as I explained above.
You're mistaking the details of her setting with her role. Sure, you can take her, with her powers, and transplant them to another setting, and she won't necessarily stand out, but that's not my point. My point is taking her narrative role, and applying it, to different characters in their own settings. One doesn't have to have superpowers to fill that role -- one could be a stern but caring schoolteacher, for example.
Also I forget whether you've watched StrikerS but I'm going to presume you haven't. I'm speaking with having watched that, and I'm pretty damn sure I'm using stuff that's happened in that series as a big part of what codifies her character concept. Given that, that's probably a major reason why you don't see her the same way as I do. Incidentally, I'm pretty sure that's why I chose a schoolteacher as an example -- that role really doesn't much fit her in her roles in the first two seasons.
2. No, that's because the hardcore fandom chews through shows way too fast and follows a "consume then discard" behavior. [/opinion]
1. What is "achieves enough"? Stories aren't the same as engineering feats or legislative acts.
I watched and rewatched (and plan to watch again) two versions of Fate/stay Night. It's literally impossible for me to not like it. No matter how appealing idealism may be, Nanoha (the character and the show) does not give it enough thought or analysis to rise above the trite in this regard.
This is hardly "diplomacy and outreach". I'm pretty sure if I decided to beat up someone for not communicating or understanding it wouldn't receive praise. And it didn't even work as the Wolkenritters only started communicating after Hayate was discovered and they simply could no longer keep her a secret. They were literally never convinced by her until circumstances stopped them from keeping things up.
And anything resembling a problem that she couldn't shoot at ends up a non-issue.
That doesn't justify their earlier leniency.
Also, are you seriously arguing that it makes any sense for a parent to simply trust their nine year old child, who for all they know is completely ordinary, enough to let her disappear for days to be with people they know nothing about?
A lot of things "can" in that way. Doesn't make them iconic. I'm pretty sure "different genre AU" is basically its own category at this point, especially if you include fanfics.
I dropped it about 3/5 of the way through because it was dull. I am quite sure I've told you this before, and I even specified that whether or not later parts are exciting does not justify this.
I make a habit of rewatching things later on and I still can't find fault in discarding them.
Influence and recognition are somewhat measurable. Like how often it might be referenced in other media, whether or not any trends are set, how easily you can expect any random person to recognize it even if they're not particularly into whatever niche it's in. Maybe if the name recognition is big enough that even the most disappointing media makes lots of money because you can reliably expect enough people to want to see anything related to the name. (Batman v. Superman being probably the biggest example)
Except what she says right there is in fact very much a meaningful statement if you put it into a real-life context. It's only when you look at it as a story device and basically pre-conclude that it is an excuse to get a fight going, that you can view it as that.
Incidentally, you just pointed to a problem that she couldn't shoot at. But instead, it doesn't become a non-issue -- it's solved by building social connections. Not necessarily at the same time as fighting, mind you, but still.
Not sure how AU makes something iconic or non-iconic.
What I mean is by labeling Nanoha "iconic" is that her core character concept can be boiled down to one or more principles for which one can say "this is what she is about".
Yeah I kinda remember us talking about it before but I don't remember the details of it. I guess it just cements that we have rather different tastes with regards to this, since StrikerS is firmly one of my favorite shows.
In contrast, I don't discard them despite not rewatching stuff consistently.
I think you're probably misunderstanding me with regards to the term "iconic".
By that, as I explained above, I mean something like how people can say stuff like "Jesus is love" or such. Boiling down a character to a core concept that represents a clear message or vision or principle or other idea/concept/thing (or maybe a handful of such things) that represents them. I find that really memorable characters have a combination of that and a humanization of them within the story.
Incidentally I used to not much like Nanoha's role in StrikerS, but the more I thought about it the more I felt I understood her perspective and her role.
In any case, I'm not talking about the influence the work has in the medium/genre/industry. Though to be fair, Nanoha has had a pretty strong influence, even if it's not still directly visible today -- it's a conceptual predecessor to Madoka Magica, despite that show taking things in a very different direction. And it cemented the place of the magical girl show that just runs on appeal to an older audience.
I will readily admit than many things I've watched are far from my thing. It is surprisingly hard to find something that actually offers an interesting perspective on its subject matter that I never would have considered without watching it specifically.
Again, if I literally decide to fight someone in real life because they wouldn't communicate, I would not be praised.
The Wolkenritter literally lost any chance of keeping up their secrecy, (which was the main reason for not communicating with her), entirely because they happened to be at the same place at the same time. So yeah, Vita and co.'s refusal to communicate basically resolved itself. And getting them to work together against
ReinforceNachtwal is hardly "building social connections". Considering the stakes (Hayate in particular), they were certainly desperate enough to work with literally any superpowered people in the area, which Nanoha's group happened to be the only ones."Conceptual" is an understatement, really. But Symphogear received a bigger influence still.
Mai-HiME started at about the same time and was far more successful. It just never got a followup capable of building on that momentum. Also, Jubei-chan came out even earlier and uh, existed...? And we're proobably forgetting some OVAs or whatever.
I don't know much about parenting but it sounds like Nanoha's were actively waiting for her to get kidnapped.
To be fair it seems that A's is more typically praised than than the first season. Though, oddly, I actually like A's the least, of the three seasons.
The first season is just dull. Not surprising it was less successful. It took surprisingly long to even introduce a second magical girl and there's no complicated behind-the-scenes conspiracies or anything that ever really felt big. The backstory about Lost Logia destroying worlds might as well be all talk and the only Bureau people who showed up were confined to the Arthra most of the time with the only occasion their numbers seemed relevant was when they tried to arrest Presea*, which of course didn't work out.
*why is it spelled "Precia" anywhere ever? The naming scheme pretty clearly points to this.
The first season established the major series tropes, specifically Nanoha befriending people (though since this takes an entire arc to set up, it's not something they can really do that much of per season) and taking inspiration from mecha series for its magical combat and mechanisms. These are things that really showed up visually late in the series, and while the series could have taken more subtle inspirations it looked relatively standard and straightforward for a single-magical-girl series early on -- which is what made you call it "dull" it seems.
If that was a real concern, we'd have so many ways to spell "Sakura" and "Miki".
Yeah I don't even know anymore.
Ouch.
I'll probably have to watch this.
I can't tell if you're referring to me or that scene.
I watched an episode of Hina Logi and was surprised at how unengaging I found it after a break, and that was really disconcerting because I picked it over Princess Principal. Even though Princess Principal has basically 180d from it's original tone (picking idealistic endings over like... sanity, even though that's the exact opposite of what episode 1 was) it is really still fun.
Raising Project is still amazing.
Today when I was watching the second episode of DREAM FESTIVAL! R I realized that like, 2/3rds of the way in and I was really unabashedly enjoying it. I mean, of course I enjoyed DIVE!! and PriPri before but those are givens.
It also turns out that episodes 8 and 9 of Hina Logi were just genuinely really bad and vaguely pointless.