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I am not ready to quit TV Tropes yet

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Comments

  • ElbeemElbeem
    edited 2011-08-04 11:31:11
    Wait, you guys have English dictionaries that list Japanese terms that are not established English loan words? Because mine don't, and I would like to buy yours if that's the case.

    You feel that they are useless, but these are terms that many English speaking fans come across that are not intuitive or especially well-defined in the media they encounter them in. So, to those fans, the pages can be useful.

    If you can show that Stupides is a term that is seeing use in the English speaking fandom, go for it.

    I have demonstrated how those pages can be helpful. No one has demonstrated how those pages are in any way harmful, aside for the fact that they simply don't care for them. Why give up utility with no measurable gain in utility in other areas?
  • AHRAHR
    Teehee...fishcake idiot...
  • Scrye2Scrye2
    Electric Boogaloo
    On the whole "baka" issue:

    I don't give two shits if it gets cut or stays, but I will say if anything it should be rewritten. About 1/3 of the article is spent explaining that the previous 1/3 is irrelevant. Seriously?
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    Wait, you guys have English dictionaries that list Japanese terms that are not established English loan words? Because mine don't, and I would like to buy yours if that's the case.

    I never said a physical dictionary. ;)

    We have google, wikipedia, a million other things. If you can see a TvT page, then surely you can check it out somewhere else. 

    You feel that they are useless, but these are terms that many English speaking fans come across that are not intuitive or especially well-defined in the media they encounter them in. So, to those fans, the pages can be useful.

    Unless the word Baka goes untranslated in a English-to-Japanese translation of an anime, I really don't see how you can stumble upon the word. And even then, that condition doesn't normally happen without at least  a translator note. (Or they are trollsubs, but that's neither here or there)
  • AHRAHR
    edited 2011-08-04 11:43:05
    We have google, wikipedia, a million other things. If you can see a TvT page, then surely you can check it out somewhere else. 

    By that logic, you could remove lots of pages on tv tropes, because it can be google-able elsewhere. It's much more handy to have it on one convenient site.

    Unless the word Baka goes untranslated in a English-to-Japanese translation of an anime, I really don't see how you can stumble upon the word.

    It does.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    It does.

    And I repeat: And even then, that condition doesn't normally happen without at least a translator note.

    By that logic, you could remove lots of pages on tv tropes, because it can be google-able elsewhere. It's much more handy to have it on one convenient site.

    Our supposed duty is to catalogue everything surrounding our definition of tropes, how they affect media and the like...how does he word "baka" affect "media"? Is it a trope? Is now calling people "Stupid" a trope, now? Or am I missing something?
  • Scrye2Scrye2
    Electric Boogaloo
    Juan, you baka! Don't you know that Tv Tropes rarely has anything to do with actual tropes now?
  • AHRAHR
    Well, it's a common fanspeak term that influences a lot of fanwork so...yeah.
  • Engrish_IvyEngrish_Ivy
    ...
    >>Unless
    the word Baka goes untranslated in a English-to-Japanese translation of
    an anime, I really don't see how you can stumble upon the word.

    >It does.

    And we are partly responsible, for letting the untranslated baka slide.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    I'm sorry, Scrye-kun! I won't do it again, I swear-desu~
  • ForzareForzare
    edited 2011-08-04 11:51:58
    Till shade is gone, till water is gone, into the Shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath, to spit in Sightblinder’s eye on the last Day.
    ^ I think you mean Scrye-onii-sama~

    ...

    Typing that caused me actual physical pain.
  • AHRAHR
    edited 2011-08-04 11:54:47
    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AnimeFanSpeak

    Keep in mind, it's not like Baka is all by itself.

  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    The demographics bit is fine, it is media related, after all. Although I don't understand why Mina is called Mina and the article is not helping.

    The genres are fine as well, media related too.

    Character types are also trope related, as they refer to convetions use by authors. In this case, of the archetypical kind.

    And we got to Fandom Terms:

    Ok, at first sight, I think, Zettai Ryouki, Takahashi Couple (Which is even define with a trope) and Densha Otaku are unnecessary.

    And even then, I'd say that a lot of them more a unnecessary as well, but I need to look into them further to make a proper judgement. 
  • ElbeemElbeem
    No, it's not a trope, it's a Fan speak term. Originally it was incorrectly listed as a trope, but shifted to its current Fan speak term function when said error was brought up in TRS.

    We have many, many types of pages that are not tropes. We have wild mass guesses, headscratchers, trivia, quotes, image collections, fanfic recommendations, haikus, tear jerkers, and many more not even getting into everything we have on the forums. None of those things "affect media", they are resources for the fans brought about because media affects us.

    While none of those pages aid the core mission of cataloging tropes, neither do they detract from that mission, and they provide content that our many readers use and enjoy. I would apply the same standard to the request for the removal of any of those page types as I do for the fan speak pages: namely, that you give me a much better reason than the fact that you don't personally find it useful.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    edited 2011-08-04 12:03:15
    You can change. You can.
    Then how is it usefult to me to know what baka means? Why is it so important that a troper or any reader knows this that we made a page around it? Of all the Japanese words in the whole language, what makes baka so special?
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    ^
  • AHRAHR
    edited 2011-08-04 12:04:04
    Juan: I am fairly sure if you made a page of other japanese phrases, no one would object too much.
  • DonZabuDonZabu
    >Of all the Japanese words in the whole language, what makes baka so special?

    Blame Evangelion.
  • Engrish_IvyEngrish_Ivy
    edited 2011-08-04 12:06:02
    ...
    > Densha Otaku

    But that's just a redirect for Rail Enthusiast.

    Nobody was able to find what Mina was meant to be, so why we still have that, is a mystery.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    edited 2011-08-04 12:07:24
    You can change. You can.
    Juan: I am fairly sure if you made a page of other japanese phrases, no one would object too much.

    But this took priority. The editors of the wiki want me to know what baka means above any other Japanese word.

    And I ask again, what's so special about it? Is it because Asuka says it and because all Tsunderes are like Asuka but without the awesomeness?

    ^Ah, it is? Didn't know that. I read the page as I commented and I really didn't see what was so important about having a Japanese term for "Trainspotter"
  • ElbeemElbeem
    edited 2011-08-04 12:08:56
    Baka isn't special. It's one of many Fanspeak pages currently on the website.

    As for how it's useful for you, I have no idea. Pettanko and Zettai Ryouiki were useful for me, because while I had seen it referenced among anime fandoms in the past, I really wasn't aware of its background until I read the TVTropes page for them.

    But while we're at it, the Haikus, Quotes Pages, WMG pages, and the entire right hand side of the forums aren't useful to me, as I never visit them. Is that a good reason for me to request their removal?
  • VorpyVorpy
    ☭Unstoppable Sex Goddess☭
    Trying to launch a Pendejo page that supports most mexican themed comedies, action movies and GTA series would actually be a good way of either a: getting people to justify the existence of "baka" in anime as a legitimate trope b: allow other non-japanese words become tropes c: prevent single words that don't revolve around a central theme get removed.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    No, admittedly, it is not, but they're stuff that is there for fun, as the banner rightfully declares. 

    But this is not there "Just For Fun", this is a full fledged (Relatively speaking, no?), indexed, referenced article. 
  • AHRAHR
    I'd be fine if Baka got merged with some other definition-only japanese fanspeak terms, if someone else was willing to supply them.
  • ElbeemElbeem
    The pages I mentioned (excluding the forums, obviously) are also indexed, referenced, and articles. So I'm not sure where you're going with that.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    Maybe that it has so much importance when it's just a bunch of fandom terms. 

    Ugh, I don't know. I just know I don't like it. There's a reason why I don't post in TRS, I'm just not good at arguing these things. 
  • AHRAHR
    No Such Thing as Notability, right?
  • ShichibukaiShichibukai
    Thane of rum-guzzling and necromancy
    *thread hop*

    I'm completely missing the point of abandoning TV tropes. Partly because alot of my online social life is now invested in the site (pathetic I know), but also because it is a great site. Not perfect. It has some awkward coding and wiki clutter which need to be fixed.

    Yet the core of the site, the reason I was attracted there in the first place, is good. And the forums, besides being awkward and very basic, still appeal to me. I won't be leaving unless the forums become too dead to bother with, or if wiki activity grinds to a massive halt and the place turns into an archive. There are still thousands of unique users posting on the fora and editing the wiki daily.
  • Engrish_IvyEngrish_Ivy
    edited 2011-08-04 12:19:07
    ...
    @AHR: Oh, how that policy has come to bite us in the ass...

    @Shichibukai: Duly noted.
  • MyrmidonMyrmidon
    Not really.
This discussion has been closed.