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The idea that male is default

245

Comments

  • MadassAlexMadassAlex
    One foot in front of the other, every day.
    That, too. Gender equality is a two-way street.
  • vandrovandro
    edited 2011-10-19 21:19:32
    He who laments and can't let go of the past is forever doomed to solitude.
    I am not against he as gender neutral, because frankly gender neutral means jack shit to me. Gender in language is an accident of linguistic evolution, not a tool of opression, or you are gonna tell me russians are less sexist because they have male/female/neutral/plural?
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    While it doesn't matter much to me, I'm willing to admit that there being a neutral gender term would be useful. 
  • vandrovandro
    He who laments and can't let go of the past is forever doomed to solitude.
    I am not against it, I find it interesting from a linguistic perspective, but forcing the language to change to suit some people is something that bothers me, as is the euphemism threadmill
  • GelzoGelzo
    Pony Sleuth
    I was going to post something, but the people I agree with covered it pretty well, and I probably can't get through to the people I don't agree with.
  • vandrovandro
    He who laments and can't let go of the past is forever doomed to solitude.
    You still didn't specify which side you are on, though.
  • GelzoGelzo
    Pony Sleuth
    The side that's right, obviously.
  • vandrovandro
    He who laments and can't let go of the past is forever doomed to solitude.
    You capitalist pigs and your right-wing.
  • GelzoGelzo
    Pony Sleuth
    Not that kind of right!
  • vandrovandro
    He who laments and can't let go of the past is forever doomed to solitude.
    Be obtuse in explanations, and I'll be obtuse at understanding, comrade.
  • GelzoGelzo
    Pony Sleuth
    To paraphrase my uncle, I eschew obfuscation.
  • IcalasariIcalasari
    edited 2011-10-19 23:39:03
    No rainbow star
    ^^ I think my belly's obtuse D:
  • CounterclockCounterclock
    Belief
    Fuck sexism >:[
  • PrincessApricotPrincessApricot
    Give them pleasure - the same pleasure they have when they wake up from a nightmare.
    This bugs me too, but it honestly needn't be worried about so much. Why? Because SOMETHING needs to be default. Especially with relation to the English language, which has he and she, but no gender neutral word to fill a similar purpose.

    Annoying? Yes. Politically incorrect? Also yes. Unnecessary? No, unfortunately; it is very necessary. The most anyone could hope for is women getting deliberately shoehorned in, but that in and of itself would be messy.

    So basically, there is nothing that can be done. Unless maybe shemales are considered the default or something...
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    Especially with relation to the English language, which has he and she, but no gender neutral word to fill a similar purpose.
  • PrincessApricotPrincessApricot
    edited 2011-10-20 04:48:34
    Give them pleasure - the same pleasure they have when they wake up from a nightmare.
    My English professor would red ink my paper if I started calling people "it". XD

    Fortunately I can get away with "one" every so often, but it doesn't fit every situation. Eventually you have to say "he" or "she"; no getting around it.
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    Contest it then. It's a valid use of the word.
  • PrincessApricotPrincessApricot
    Give them pleasure - the same pleasure they have when they wake up from a nightmare.
    It's not a valid use of the word when it makes your paper sound like crap.

    IJBM: the English language.
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    Then use one of the other phrases provided there. Or not, I don't really care. The whole thing was just to say that there are multiple gender-neutral pronouns.
  • PrincessApricotPrincessApricot
    Give them pleasure - the same pleasure they have when they wake up from a nightmare.
    "It", "one", and "they" are very limited and often are the cause of reference errors.

    I do not deny that it would be possible to completely rewrite things and axe entire sentences due to the need for a pronoun, but such would be both exceedingly time consuming and destructive to an otherwise good paper.

    I will use a "he" and "men"  two or three times on my philosophy paper, just like how it was done in the good ol' days.


  • CounterclockCounterclock
    Belief
    How about we not be fucking sexist for the sake of "Convenience"
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    I don't really care. The whole thing was just to say that there are multiple gender-neutral pronouns.

    so

    ok
  • PrincessApricotPrincessApricot
    Give them pleasure - the same pleasure they have when they wake up from a nightmare.
    I happen to LIKE convenience.

    That, and making it work would be either impractical or impossible, depending on whether I am expected to constantly restructure sentences or I am expected to begin a political movement to force the acceptance of a brand new gender neutral word. That's been done before, by the way. It failed.

    "Man" and "he" are gender neutral. Or at least they must be treated as such in practice.

    Such is life.
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    "Man" and "he" are gender neutral. Or at least they must be treated as such in practice.

    That is completely wrong. Both are masculine.
  • PrincessApricotPrincessApricot
    edited 2011-10-20 05:25:51
    Give them pleasure - the same pleasure they have when they wake up from a nightmare.
    And yet they are inserted into language as if they are. Crazy ain't it?

    English is such a funny language; how lucky I am that I get to speak it!
  • CounterclockCounterclock
    Belief
    It's failed before?

    So?

    Try it again...

    Y'know, like everything you try.
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    No. Seriously. 'He' and 'man' are not gender-neutral, and have not been considered as such for many, many years at this point. Anybody who uses them as such is an idiot and probably needs to stop inserting any words into language at all. Both terms are very, very masculine.
  • PrincessApricotPrincessApricot
    edited 2011-10-20 05:42:27
    Give them pleasure - the same pleasure they have when they wake up from a nightmare.
    "It's failed before?

    So?

    Try it again...

    Y'know, like everything you try."

    There comes a point when trying again and again ceases to be bold, and becomes rather foolish. It has been attempted A LOT, and I refuse to waste my time with such a comically bad attempt at changing society.

    Try it yourself. Put "phe" in an essay. I expect a bewildered "what the hell?" from those reading.

    *waits in anticipation*

    "No. Seriously. 'He' and 'man' are not gender-neutral, and have not been
    considered as such for many, many years at this point. Anybody who uses
    them as such is an idiot and probably needs to stop inserting any words
    into language at all. Both terms are very, very masculine."

    Depends on intent and context.

    For example, to take something from the wiki page:

    The use of "he" to refer to a person of unknown gender was prescribed by
    manuals of style and school textbooks from the early 18th century until
    around the 1960s, an early example of which is Anne Fisher's 1745
    grammar book "A New Grammar".

    • The customer brought his purchases to the cashier for checkout.
    • In a supermarket, anyone can buy anything he needs.
    • When a customer argues, always agree with him.

    I dunno about you, but those certainly look like a gender neutral uses.

    And of course, there is this:

    "A speaker may be referring to any hypothetical individual. In casual
    speech, "they" is often used, but in written works this may not be
    acceptable, due to its plurality. "One" may be used instead (see below),
    but is often considered overly bombastic."

    I write hypothetical philosophy papers all the time. In fact, I have only written one where I could dodge pronouns entirely. SOMETHING needs to be the default.
  • CounterclockCounterclock
    Belief
    And everytime gay marriage gets shot-down, we shouldn't try to reform that as well?

    Seriously, do you understand how reforms come about?
  • PrincessApricotPrincessApricot
    Give them pleasure - the same pleasure they have when they wake up from a nightmare.
    By serious and well organized efforts?
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