The idea that male is default

RedEyedAbyss

Because a picture is worth a thousand words, and this link has plenty of pictures.

And yes, the "men's specific road bike" search still applies now. Also, I did find it rather ironic that the default avatar for the site was distinctly male. Glad this place doesn't use default avatars.

glennmagusharvey

Yeah, I don't like male being the default either.

That's why I default to "person".

I used to try to argue that "guy" was gender-neutral.  Then I learned better.

RedEyedAbyss

Personally, even he/she is not gender-neutral enough for me (aside from looking really terrible). Points if you can guess why.

Icalasari

The site should use female avatars as the default

MillerCross

I think the problem is that people somehow assume that doing things just for females is feminism.

It prolly helps that said "things" are just pink versions of original products.

RedEyedAbyss

Which misses the whole point of discrimination.

AHR

...ah. yes. This.

Chagen

I think the problem is people over-reacting.

I mean, one of the commentators said that it was sexist that forms were labeled with "male" before "female".


.....Okay? Why should I give a fuck, and why are you having a Feminist Over-Reaction(TM) over the fucking ordering of a form?

Why must we view everything with skeptical eyes? Why do we have to dissect even the littlest things? What the fuck does the ordering of a form have to do with sexism? STOP FINDIG SEXISM IN EVERYTHING

MadassAlex

"Female" is alphabetically first... but "male" is a shorter word.

A conundrum.

RedEyedAbyss

"I mean, one of the commentators said that it was sexist that forms were labeled with "male" before "female"."

Why can't it be labelled the other way around?

AHR

1. That is a person who is commenting, not part of the overall point.

2. It is a valid point, if everything else is alphabetized.

MadassAlex

^^ That's not the issue in question -- the issue is "why is this an issue?".

Even if it's a problem in the first place, it's a waste of energy trying to fix it in comparison to pretty much anything else that could be done trying to win women more legal rights (where applicable) or more social recognition.

Chagen

Because then Masculnists would say that it was placing females first. Which it would be.

Why is placing "male" first a sign of sexism, but placing "female" isn't?

Oh, that's right. It's because Feminism today is focused on shifting power to women completely instead of being egalatarian.

DonZabu

"Female" is alphabetically first... but "male" is a shorter word. 

A conundrum. 

/thread

MadassAlex

^^ An extremist reaction, which you should try to cut down on.

Feminism is poorly represented at times, and there are indeed sects which seek the subjugation of men. These are far from a majority, however, and the vast majority of feminists aim for gender equality via the empowerment of women. If that goes too far at times, it can be rectified. In any case, giving women a stronger position in society is easily, easily the lesser "evil" in such matters, especially given the diversity of thought and skills that always empower arts and economies as a result.

DonZabu

>It's because Feminism today is focused on shifting power to women completely instead of being egalatarian.

>implying modern feminism has any focus at all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwGFalTRHDA

RedEyedAbyss

"/thread"

...

SERIOUSLY, THIS ISN'T EVEN IN RESPONSE TO THE MAIN ISSUE!

V Hard to tell. I have seen people using it seriously in the past.

DonZabu

^ That was in jest.

vandro

I default to male because spanish neuter is male.

CommandoDude

Uh. Caus. Who CARES?

There's literally like a billion more productive things to focus on about making the genders equal.

People would really rather make a big deal out of 'default' rather then, say, I don't know. Sexism in the US familial courts?

RedEyedAbyss

It's a very insidious and common thing which does affect people's perceptions of women and men. Stuff like male coming first on forms may seem anal by itself, but taken in context, it does raise eyebrows.

AHR

If you don't see the problem, feel free to pretend this is about race instead.

MillerCross

Oh, come on, even when taken in context it's just a random order, if anything. I'd be far more worried about what happens when you tick the female box, rather than where is the female box. 

MadassAlex

^^^ On the other hand, a hypothetical initiative to change that would be a waste of time. If things were to be so good for women in the West that energy could be focused on such a task, then it would probably be a better use of resources to strengthen international initiatives for women's empowerment.

ClockworkUniverse

Uh. Caus. Who CARES? 

There's literally like a billion more productive things to focus on about making the genders equal.

People would really rather make a big deal out of 'default' rather then, say, I don't know. Sexism in the US familial courts?

This is something that probably more than 99% of people do and would take pretty much no effort to quit doing.

I can't stop making sexist rulings in familial court, but I can stop using "he" as a gender-neutral word.

CommandoDude

"Stuff like male coming first on forms may seem anal by itself, but taken in context, it does raise eyebrows"

No it doesn't. Making a big deal out of nothing raises eyebrows.

It's literally inconsequential. People TAKING it as sexist, implies there is something wrong with them. They're seeing sexism everywhere if they look at stuff like that and think its 'insidious' 

Meanwhile, very real sexism against men goes unnoticed. That says something to me.

MillerCross

If you don't see the problem, feel free to pretend this is about race instead.

Even if it was about race, I wouldn't mind, say, White being on top of latin in a list in which the order doesn't matter, regardless of how there was a pattern in the other lists simply because of how completely irrelevant and unimportant it is. What matters to me is that when I deliver a form and I've ticked that box, it doesn't mean that I won't get the benefit for which I'm applying for.

It's an obviously sad implication, but it's so inane to care for it instead of the bigger issues.

Not to mention that it comes across as OCD instead of an actually reasonable complaint.

ClockworkUniverse

Okay, putting it first in a list, I don't see the problem behind.

I thought we were talking more about stuff like using "he" as a gender-neutral word.

BlackHumor

...ah. yes. This.

MadassAlex

Essentially, I think male coming before female on forms is a symptom rather than a problem in itself. Curing every element of sexism out there is pointless; go for the big ones, and I sincerely believe the small ones will begin to cure themselves as more enlightened perspectives take hold.

RedEyedAbyss

Ah. Sexism against males. It's often treated as apart from sexism against females, but really, they originate from the same source: people being pigeonholed into certain roles because of gender. Discrimination against transgenders also results from this.