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"It gets better later on."

NovaNova
edited 2011-10-08 05:08:01 in Media
If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
A pilot episode of a show is meant to gauge interest. It's the test of a series to see the amount of interest it generates, to see if the series could be... well, to see if people would really want to watch a show.

The show has to be interesting, from the premiere on. The pilot episode has to hook the audience, make it gain their interest from the start- because without that initial engagement, then what incentive is there for most people to watch the show?

It's like... pilot lights, or a pilot hole.

=/
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Comments

  • MadassAlexMadassAlex
    One foot in front of the other, every day.
    This, but for FF7.


  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    Yeah, it goes for other types of media too. Games, books, movies- all have people espousing this.

    Which is true- a show, game or whatever very well could get better later on. But then, not having an engaging pilot is a flaw in the series, as it will fail to engage people, which is half the point of the pilot (beyond establishing setting).
  • captainbrasscaptainbrass
    The "pilot must succeed mentality" is certainly very well established in US TV, so they agree with you. I'm not sure myself. CSI had a very dramatic pilot, where someone who looked like they would be a major character got killed, but I never liked it and think the show got better after the first series. Partly I think they had more money to throw at it once it became clear it was getting viewers. 
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    It does not necessarily guarantee that a pilot will be any good, of course- and thus the necessity of this saying in the first place.

    However, what that means is that the pilot failed at its' task.
  • LegionnaireLegionnaire
    If somebody tells me "It gets better later on" I usually respond with something along the lines of "It doesn't matter. If the show has failed to draw me in then I'm not going to be watching to the part where it gets better, because it wasn't good enough in the first place."

    Then they whine at me until I keep watching.
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    Yeah.

    Or, as I usually put it, "I still have to put up with the stupid stuff before the good stuff, so no thanks."
  • captainbrasscaptainbrass
    That depends though. Some series don't require you to have watched it all to understand it. With police procedurals, you usually have the same characters investigating a different crime each week, so although there may be some ongoing storylines, you can start in the middle without too much trouble.
  • MoeDantesMoeDantes
    no longer cuddly, but still Edmond
    I partway agree with the OP. There are a lot of TV shows and anime that I stopped watching almost immediately just because the pilot wasn't engaging (Battlestar Galactica--the remake--was one of them), even though I had heard the shows eventually become awesome.

    Simply put, there are so many anime, television series, video games etc. that hit the ground running (Shining Force), or else start off slow but are already promising greatness (The Lord of the Rings), that there's really no reason to have patience for something that doesn't show any promise until you've devoted enough time to it.

    On the other hand, if you go into Evangelion for the mindfucky stuff but then can't get past the fact that its not introduced in the very first episode, you need to adjust your expectations somewhat.
  • LegionnaireLegionnaire
    just because the pilot wasn't engaging (Battlestar Galactica--the remake--was one of them)
    We can never be friends.

    I was certainly hoping it got better later on when I slogged my way through Season 3 through. Christ that was a bad season. Thank god it did.
  • MoeDantesMoeDantes
    edited 2011-10-08 06:45:31
    no longer cuddly, but still Edmond
    We can never be friends.


    But... But friendship is magic!

    (though, I've mentioned this before)

    This, but for FF7.


    It's funny but I thought FF7 had the opposite problem: the early parts are very interesting. It's the later parts that are dull.
  • MadassAlexMadassAlex
    One foot in front of the other, every day.
    I didn't make it past four hours or so. At that stage, I still couldn't put together a goal for my protagonists, and therefore had no idea what I was personally working towards. Theoretically, that's suicide in a video game. I know it didn't pan out like that in terms of consumer enjoyment (obviously), but I just wasn't feeling any particular attachment to what was going on.

  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    You didn't have focus?

    But there's always focus! That's why it's so linear! :<
  • MadassAlexMadassAlex
    One foot in front of the other, every day.
    At that stage, it was more like a series of linked subplots than a singular goal, though.
  • SaigyoujiSaigyouji
    But you never had any to begin with.
    The main goal of early FFVII is very much set on "Take down Shinra."
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    Each subplot is a goal in and of itself though :<
  • LegionnaireLegionnaire
    But... But friendship is magic!
    Then logically I should be Gandalf.
  • MadassAlexMadassAlex
    One foot in front of the other, every day.
    ^^ Yes, but at that stage, they don't contribute to one-another. It's kinda like moving the goal posts for four hours.
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    They do though. Each unveils a character's history and contributes to the attempt to destroy SHINRA. IIRC.
  • LegionnaireLegionnaire
    And it has a girl threatening to rip a fat man's balls off. I'd say it's worth it for that, though my mental maturity is slightly less than Vanitas'.
  • MadassAlexMadassAlex
    One foot in front of the other, every day.
    ^^ Which are far more relevant if you make it further into the game.

    Which I didn't, because I didn't feel as if I was progressing anywhere. Just on an endless chain of... stuff.

    For comparison's sake, I'm currently playing Dark Souls. The game makes your objective clear within the first five minutes: undo the curse that afflicts you. This is your objective from the moment you exit the tutorial presumably until you finish. Everything in between is just commentary on that one goal, and the narrative is created by how you deal with the obstacles in your way.
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    I dunno. I don't think that a game should have to make the main plot (and the goal thereof) immediately obvious in order for it to hook a person- it merely has to provide a hook, whether that's a lesser goal (the destruction of SHINRA), character-driven goals, sidequests, or what.
  • MadassAlexMadassAlex
    One foot in front of the other, every day.
    I agree on principle, but FF7 didn't provide that hook for me, personally.
  • MoeDantesMoeDantes
    no longer cuddly, but still Edmond
    I dunno. I don't think that a game should have to make the main plot (and the goal thereof) immediately obvious in order for it to hook a person- it merely has to provide a hook, whether that's a lesser goal (the destruction of SHINRA), character-driven goals, sidequests, or what.


    There's nothing wrong with that. Plenty of RPGs do this and it usually works fine.

    The problem is that FF7 just doesn't do it that well. It introduces a somewhat interesting premise ("bring down the evil corp!!!") and then kinda meanders and has you doing a bunch of stuff that seems tangential. And then it abruptly drops the Corporation plot in favor of having you follow Sephiroth around everywhere with no clear rhyme or purpose.
  • ViviVivi
    $80+ per session
    Unfortunately, a lot of shows don't get the funding, or writing freedom that they want right away.
  • KinkajouKinkajou
    Kamen Rider MADOKA
    Sephiroth was a less interesting fellow than Hojo and Rufus Shinra were.

    There, I said it. And granted I don't take a good view of our white haired pretty boy because lol 90s fujoshi bait 
  • AHRAHR
    I dunno. I think it depends on how it gets "better"

    If there is a dramatic swerve in story telling style, especially with something as experimental as tv, then it might have some credit to it. 
  • RedEyedAbyssRedEyedAbyss
    What is truly infuriating is when "It gets better" is used as an excuse to move the goalposts. Oh, you didn't like the first episode? Well, you'll like it after 5. Oh wait, you still don't like it? How about 10? What? You're still bored? Trust us, it becomes awesome three-quarters through the series!
  • AHRAHR
    I think it's telling when people are willing to say  "skip this part, read this section. See if that gets your interest." 

    It's slightly more tailored.
  • RedEyedAbyssRedEyedAbyss
    edited 2011-10-08 09:36:40

    At first, I was thinking "well, what's the point if I find it incomprehensible?"

    Then I realized that what you said was the mentality behind video game demos (well, some of them. Most of the ones I've played started from the beginning).

  • AHRAHR
    Well, I should hope that section is well written enough, that anything that doesn't make sense is what makes you want to figure out more.

    I know that's what happened when I jumped to a random point in one piece, I kept wanting to go farther and farther back to get the full story.
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