People who think TV Tropes is composed entirely of perverts

MillerCross

I honestly have never ever seen you being brought up. 

And if you were, I'd already PM you telling you what they have said or whatever. 

Central Avenue

Oh.

Ok then.

Anonus

You seem to assume people have problems with you.

Central Avenue

I guess I do assume that.

Which is weird, because people on here (and TVT, etc.) seem to actually like me.

Stormtroper

I should go there one of these days, it seems to have all the good gossiping.

Also:

I almost wish I knew what they say when they bitch about me.

That way I would know which annoying things to stop doing.

Counterclock

You said barely mentioned... which means I am mentioned XD

Bob

[obligatory asking of what is mentioned of me here]

Malkavian

ITT: People thinking they're notable enough to be bitched about and more worryingly seeming to want it.

Bob

I get off on insults.

Counterclock

I get off on fetishes....

Malkavian

I get off on pain

Schitzo

Huh...

What am I missing out on by not visiting #Yackfest?

AHR

I thought it was common to assume other people had problems with you.

Nova

No

Not at all, really

Not unless you think you've done something to deserve it

AHR

Well, goes to show what I know. I always assumed since there were people I disliked, but never ever interacted with, it probably worked both ways. I don't assume everyone does, but I assume there has to be some people that have problems with me.

I mean, no one is universably likable, right?

Nova

Nobody is universally likeable, but not because there is someone who will always dislike you. Mostly, it's just because people don't interact with all that many people in their lifetime. The vast majority of people are simply indifferent to you.

AHR

Well, sure, the vast majority of people are indifferent to you, but it works both ways. More people are indifferent to you than they like you. And I've had people who seriously took beef with me on tv tropes before, so it seemed logical that other people had similar problems. I am not nearly self-centered enough to assume I'm some notorious user like some are, I'm not trying to imply that.

MillerCross

It's still downright paranoid to assume that people have a problem with you without any evidence that proves it. 

You said barely mentioned... which means I am mentioned XD ~ Counterclock

Because Solstace totally has a crush on you and wants to talk to you more.

Which means you should get on more, damn you. >

[obligatory asking of what is mentioned of me here] ~ Bob

There's a note saved for MidnightVelvet by Tzetze in there. Dunno what it is. And that's about it. Nobody cares.

AHR

It's paranoid to assume that there are going to be people in your life who are never going to like you, for no other reason than clash?

Noimporta

As if you didn't know about #yackfest by now...
Strangely enough, Kino wasn't bitched about much over there. Most bitching about him I've seen was here.

I almost wish I knew what they say when they bitch about me.
They don't.

You said barely mentioned... which means I am mentioned XD
I've seen you mentioned twice in the entire lifetime of the channel, and one of them was in your only visit to it.

It's paranoid to assume that there are going to be people in your life
who are never going to like you, for no other reason than clash?

No, it's paranoid to assume that they will be the rule, rather than the exception.

AHR

Oh. Ok. I don't think it's the rule. Maybe a rule, along the lines of "you can't please everyone." Most people probably don't care about me enough to dislike me ^_^;

MillerCross

Strangely enough, Kino wasn't bitched about much over there. Most bitching about him I've seen was here.

You clearly were not there yesterday. :P

LouieW

Juan_Carlos,

I would say it is a bit of exaggeration to say people spend most of their time here complaining about other users. In fact, I would say that kind of behavior is pretty much frowned upon or at least it should be. I cannot think of anything good that comes of that sort of stuff. Well, maybe some people think that venting is helpful, but if so, I think people should be able to just PM each other instead of bringing it out in the open in a forum thread.

As for complaining about people, I tend to agree that it is not worth worrying about whether people hate you on TV Tropes or another site. I think the key thing is to be courteous to others and not care about petty grudges. I have to admit that might not be easy though and if someone is saying hateful things to you, it is generally a good idea to get a moderator involved. Sorry, I guess that all was pretty obvious in the end.

glennmagusharvey

> Gearsexual

Gotta move that gear up.

MillerCross

I would say it is a bit of exaggeration to say people spend most of their time here complaining about other users. In fact, I would say that kind of behavior is pretty much frowned upon or at least it should be. I cannot think of anything good that comes of that sort of stuff. Well, maybe some people think that venting is helpful, but if so, I think people should be able to just PM each other instead of bringing it out in the open in a forum thread.

I definetly agree and disagree. I think the most mature option is talking it out with the bugger in question, but in practice and in both TvT and IJBM, it barely works. 

To give you a hint, I've PMed SotiCoto at least twice in order for him to either stop the rampant nihilism or to at least tone it down. Did not work.

I PMed a certain TvT user about his...shady advice in the Angst thread and he kept on doing his deal. and it goes on and on and on.

The problem with a private conversation is that it is not watched by others, not everyone records or remembers it. Not everyone will hold you to whatever things you said in there, and even when you bring it up, it does not mean that they will stop acting the way they do. 

The only way for people to stop being douches is either for them to realize that what they're doing is douchey and expect them to gradually change, or for them to be intervened by various sources, because when only ne voice complains, it is not heard. Simple.

As for complaining about people, I tend to agree that it is not worth worrying about whether people hate you on TV Tropes or another site. I think the key thing is to be courteous to others and not care about petty grudges. I have to admit that might not be easy though and if someone is saying hateful things to you, it is generally a good idea to get a moderator involved. Sorry, I guess that all was pretty obvious in the end. 

Moderators only solve so much. They're priority is that you and the problem user's public interactions are a-OK. They don't (or have no reason to) give a fuck about your private interactions or the way they subtly act around the rules to rile you up (Such as passive aggressive behavior or injokes and the like)

I think that if someone is bothered by what you're doing in TvT, then it's their duty to tell you and discuss it privately. If this does not work, then they should bring it up publicly. And if this does not work, then it's time to bring in the moderation and shut this shit down and let them begin the process anew privately till one of them either gets banned or they reach an agreement. Simple, really. 

LouieW

Juan_Carlos,
I definitely agree and disagree. I think the most mature option is
talking it out with the bugger in question, but in practice and in both TvT and IJBM, it barely works.

The problem with a private conversation is that it is not watched by others, not everyone records or remembers it. Not everyone will hold you to whatever things you said in there, and even when you bring it up, it does not mean that they will stop acting the way they do.

Your experience with trying to work things out one-on-one seems to be consistent with that of most other tropers/IJBMers I have talked to about this subject, so I tend to agree with you about that and the potential reasons for why working it out in PMs is often not effective.

However, I would be interested in hearing about some examples of when bringing up problems with a user publicly have helped change his or her behavior. I have yet to see evidence that it really can, so I think pointing to some examples of it might help me understand your position better here. Given the personal nature of those issues, you can feel free to PM me the details instead of posting them in this thread.

Moderators only solve so much. They're priority is that you and the problem user's public interactions are a-OK.

While I think that is generally true, there have been some instances where users were harassing people in PMs (i.e. privately) and were punished for it. If I remember correctly, that has happened both here and on TV Tropes.

As for what you say about subtly acting around the rules to rile you up, I think that part of that just unfortunately has to be tolerated. Some people believe that an ignore extension is the answer, but I rarely see behavior that is objectionable that is also not against the rules anyway. 

MillerCross

However, I would be interested in hearing about some examples of when bringing up problems with a user publicly have helped change his or her behavior. I have yet to see evidence that it really can, so I think pointing to some examples of it might help me understand your position better here. Given the personal nature of those issues, you can feel free to PM me the details instead of posting them in this thread.

I wish I really had examples I was sure about. Beyond me, I mean. And even then, it took time and it wasn't simply people calling me out on my shit all of a sudden. 

The thing is, even the people I'm thinking of, they are by no means actually valid examples, as most of them could have been PMed as well as called out in public. 

While I think that is generally true, there have been some instances where users were harassing people in PMs (i.e. privately) and were punished for it. If I remember correctly, that has happened both here and on TV Tropes. 

Vorpy tried to harass me once in here, I told the mods right away. And there's the whole Made of Meat deal a couple of years ago.

The thing is, that this isn't just run-of-the-mill annoyance. In both cases, they were really creepy messages that preyed both on a massively unstable person and a random idiot on a forum.

I did get Vorpy's apology after it happened, though, and we're still somewhat cool, but I admit that when I'm kinda wary of her and her moods. 

Anyway, the point I''m trying to get at is that those are rather exceptional circumnstances. You don't necessarily call a mod because a person calls you a dick via PM.

LouieW

Juan_Carlos,
I wish I really had examples I was sure about.

The thing is, even the people I'm thinking of, they are by no means actually valid examples, as most of them could have been PMed as well as called out in public.

I tend to think that part of the reason why finding real examples is difficult is because calling people out publicly actually tends to be ineffective. As far as I can tell, there are some pretty reasonable explanations for why that is the case. I think that disruptive and annoying behavior is usually coupled with a resistance to or distaste for either the general protocol of a forum or the users themselves.

As a result, calling such a person out is not going to change much since the person in question probably has contempt for the userbase already or at least distrusts certain users in particular. In such situations, I think publicly bringing up one's misgivings with a user is at best just venting. While some may argue that venting is appropriate, I see no reason why it can not just be done in PMs among friends (i.e. if you feel the need to vent, do it with other people privately rather than publicly).

I tend to agree that the examples you bring up are pretty exceptional and that it is probably not worth doing much about run-of-the-mill annoyances. Tolerating them makes sense to me most of the time. Still, I think it is fair for people to report to a mod if someone calls you a name in a PM in order to send the signal that doing stuff like that is not okay. Even if you might not care much, I think that discouraging such insults helps people who are more likely to be affected by that kind of thing.

AHR

I've called people out in public before.

The success varies.

MillerCross

I tend to think that part of the reason why finding real examples is difficult is because calling people out publicly actually tends to be ineffective. As far as I can tell, there are some pretty reasonable explanations for why that is the case. I think that disruptive and annoying behavior is usually coupled with a resistance to or distaste for either the general protocol of a forum or the users themselves.

As a result, calling such a person out is not going to change much since the person in question probably has contempt for the userbase already or at least distrusts certain users in particular. In such situations, I think publicly bringing up one's misgivings with a user is at best just venting. While some may argue that venting is appropriate, I see no reason why it can not just be done in PMs among friends (i.e. if you feel the need to vent, do it with other people privately rather than publicly).

Eh, not all annoying behaviors are intentional or at least malicious. Many of them are a mix of lack of self awareness and understanding of forum etiquette. And sometimes the venting make the person understand that he's not particularly liked there, which really helps both parties instead of fostering grudges and the like.