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Comments
Pennywise the Dancing Clown of course!
One reason that I think the mods are unwilling to do anything about Troper Tales, beyond putting them in a new format that everyone knows does jack about keeping bad entries out, is that they're afraid that deleting TT will cause editors to leave. Way back when, after the deletion of I Am Not Making This Up, there were a bunch of people that flounced, and since TT has a lot more supporters than IANMTU did, they're afraid that it would cause a lot of people to leave.
Of course, TT itself is causing people to leave, and that doesn't seem to bother Fast Eddie et. al. that much..
"I'm leaving because of the direction the site has taken..."
Way to be fuckin descriptive.
On Troper Tales: the problem is that 50% of these are honestly terribly
boring, a borderline example of the relevant trope applied to someone's
life to make it seem more interesting. The other 50% breaks some rule or
another, usually the "don't wedge tropes into a fantasy life" or"don't
be creepy". I honestly think that, if shutting down troper tales
completely isn't an option (and it should be the only option), then at
least get rid of any troper tales which are about personality.
On sci-fi/fantasy tropes: I like anime and manga as well, but I also
recognise that it (mostly) isn't very intellectual. However there are
plenty of tropers willing to defend to the death the "superior
storytelling" and "deep characters" of the unnamed anime or any other
lolipedo show. Try that poo poo here, you will get banned, because
there's only one reason anyone watches these shows. Also, there's the
defence of any tropes with Japanese names because no english word or
combination of words can accuratly discribe such awesome tropes as
nakama (Family of friends), tsundere (bipolar bitch) or yandere (loving
psycho). Also, as I commented earlier on in this thread. What happens
when the campaign to rename these tropes reaches lolicon (paedophile) or
otaku (
Cherrypicking: I'd be lying if I said that some goons in this thread
don't cherrypick the worst tropes/members/threads. But the fact is that
this poo poo is still available for public viewing. People always
emphasise the most negative aspects of anything (you have a trope for
this, natch), and if it's a decent site with an undercurrent of people
saying "this troper secretly is a deadpan snarker who wants to gently
caress his sister", then the site will be labeled as a haven of socially
inept creeps. Again, this is why we ban any particularly creepy poster,
because we don't want that poo poo here.
So it's pretty much a case of what is best to emphasise the worst
aspects of tvtropes? Troper Tales: All Women are Prides or Troper Tales:
Ahem. A forums thread devoted to cybersex or a forums thread for word
association. Fast Eddie being a terrible person/bad administrator or
some generic member posting something about his socks.
Also, one of the other key problems with TVTropes is, as mentioned
before, the constant fear of criticism. You're afraid to call out
self-confessed lolicons or self-diagnosed aspies on their bullshit
because someone might call you a nerd, or worse, a bigot. You're afraid
of negative reviews because that actually means that some things are
objectively bad. No such thing as notability again means that you
document every terrible fanfiction, every perverse website, because
someone may like it and who are you to say that pokegirls isn't an
acceptable literary endeavour.
No such thing as notability is one of the worst things about the main site.
E: good things about troper tales: Anytime I come across Edgy.'
You've got a point about no such thing as notability. Sadly, most of the people attracted to tvt tend to have...I guess you could say clumping interests.
Hmmmm, there are two other things that bother me on TvTropes. One is the large amount of tropes that have no relevance to plot, really, and thus leads to a fastpaced work like Homestuck having so...many...tropes to sludge through....
And the second is the assumption some people make that having Asperger's means you're smarter or better then neurotypicals. I have Asperger's, and people consider me smart, but that doesn't mean the Asperger's caused the intellegence. Corelation does not imply causation, and I simply do not have enough data to go on.
I don't think Madrugada is a bad mod, though, just overworked.
- looks in thread -
- sees juan's avatar -
- sees fear generated by avatar -
ONE OF US! ONE OF US!
"And Adam said to Lilith, 'What is thy problem, you psycho bitch! Lord Almighty, please bring forth me another ho!"
Deadpan Snarker and Yandere: It's fucking stupid, and those tropes were
never meant to apply to people in real life, either. Plus, a real life
Yandere would be terrifying and massively unstable, and any real life
deadpan snarkers are not going to identify themselves as such, because
if you're really that witty, you don't NEED to advertise it. Another bad
part of TvTropes.
People will do this wherever they are. Besides, it's just on their own contributor page or signature line. I don't think this is really a problem at all.
@Scrye2 > I don't think it helps that a vast majority of the tropes on TV Tropes..... aren't tropes! The
Lord of the Flies isn't going to have some crap like Meganekko in it,
not because it didn't have some kid with glasses, it did, but because
Meganekko isn't a trope, it's a entry made because tropers wanted to
gush about their favorite glasses-wearing character in anime and manga.
Here's the problem: You have fans who pay inordinate amounts of attention to things like this (as well as girls wearing high stockings with skirts, and more), and then creators respond to this by taking this into account when creating and casting characters.
(Not to mention that there are certain personality types typical of animé girls who wear glasses, which also makes the phenomenon tropable. But what I said above does apply directly to the whole zettai ryouiki (spelling?) thing.)
So you could call this a "fanservice trope".
@Scrye2 > @Elbeem:
I don't think Something Aweful's mission statement is to catalog
literary tropes and cliches found in all forms of media, new or old.
That's exactly what TV Tropes claims to do, but instead, it's become a
fanpage. Even Fast Eddy admits they're only supposed to like stuff on
the wiki.
I think that almost everyone agrees that TV Tropes doesn't have enough coverage of older and/or more classic works.
That said, lacking coverage in one department doesn't seem to be a sufficient reason by itself to hold back coverage of another department.
@INUH > I'd say "girls wearing glasses" is probably tropeable in that the
creator has to make a conscious decision to make that part of their
character design. Now, the amount of interest that page gets is vastly disproportionate to its importance. ^We're not actually supposed to gush about stuff there either, but hating gets harder crackdowns because it tends to start shit.
Actually, one idea of how to deal with this is to challenge examples that seem shoehorned. Another idea is to limit the maximum number of examples on a trope page, and then have people vote to put the best examples on the page.
@INUH > Realism and PSOC aren't related at all. PSOC means "elements that weren't included for any particular reason."
You bring up an interesting perspective on PSOC.
That said, if what you say is true, PSOC really needs a rename, since its title implies "these are assumptions of normal people based on real-life experience, and thus are not notable when not made a point of."
@Scrye2 > I think the most character/story significance glasses can really offer
are when they play a central role to the plot or character's relevance
to it, or pretty much Velma just can't see without her glasses. Everywhere else, it's either fetishism or a bitch just has poor eyesight, like many do.
Not necessarily. As I said above, when work creators are casting characters with certain appearances to reflect certain personality traits, it becomes a trope.
@someone_on_SA_named_namtab_or_something,_probably > On Troper Tales: the problem is that 50% of these are honestly terribly
boring, a borderline example of the relevant trope applied to someone's
life to make it seem more interesting. The other 50% breaks some rule or
another, usually the "don't wedge tropes into a fantasy life" or"don't
be creepy". I honestly think that, if shutting down troper tales
completely isn't an option (and it should be the only option), then at
least get rid of any troper tales which are about personality.
No, the problem is that you bother to read it. :P
Serious answer: I've called for it to be moved to a separate site for a long time now, the way Fetish Fuel has gone.
@probably_the_same_source_as_above > Also, there's the defence of any tropes with Japanese names because no
english word or combination of words can accuratly discribe such awesome
tropes as nakama (Family of friends), tsundere (bipolar bitch) or
yandere (loving psycho).
1. Nakama has been renamed. It is now called True Companions. (I once advocated for it to be renamed "Band of Brothers".)
2. This could use a rename, but "bipolar bitch" is not a suitable name when some creators portray this as a positive trait while "bitch" implies that it is negative.
3. I agree with this one, though I think "the psycho lover" is probably a better way of phrasing it.
@Juan_Carlos > the thing is, that in my opinion, regardless of how
creepy a person is, they shouldn't be banned. Whether they're an
unproductive/unhelpful/whatever creep should determine that
better rephrasing: People shouldn't be banned solely based on being creepy; their creepiness should only be an issue if it interferes with other things, such as their ability to contribute productively.
^ Oh, Troper Tales.
Well, as I said above, it should be split off onto its own website. Problem solved.
Wanna retain some connection to TVT? Put a link on TVT to it somewhere. Maybe the stub page that used to be the hompeage of Troper Tales. Then disclaim responsibility for content. Problem solved.
Also, I too have an SA account and will probably join those who've jumped ship, considering.....sort of recent events. (Though trust me, it's been coming for a long time) *waves at posters over at SA*
Also, if glasses and shit are a fanservice trope, lump it in with Fanservice! All it takes is one little line of "Some people like people who wear glasses, a la the naughty librarian." Or if that's not specific enough, "Some people get turned on by glasses, and so many creators work in glasses to their characters' designs as a way of fanservice" and leave it at that!