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I'm really scared that my country is starting to gravitate towards Fascism

135

Comments

  • Damnit the whole thing captivated me all the things they could do with two cows.
  • Kichigai birthday!!
    I liked how they had to write Sarkozy's name next to him in that political cartoon

    This is all I have to contribute to this thread
  • Likes cheesecake unironically.
    Austrailia is pretty fucking conservative with their censorship. Not as
    bad as Germany but worse then the US.

    From what I heard, Australia is worse than Germany.
  • a little muffled
    @Tnu1138: Your communism one is wrong, as communism is stateless. Your socialism one is, I suppose, accurate as a strawman, but I could just as easily say something like:

    Capitalism - You have two cows. You're allowed to sell one to you neighbour to buy a bull, but your neighbour isn't interested when Cow-Mart has thousands of them for half as much with only a slight chance of the milk being poisonous.
  • edited 2011-06-22 12:49:25
    As a petty and vindictive person, I have to take extra steps not to appear petty and vindictive.
    Roman Republic (Early): You have two cows. They go on strike and elect themselves bovine tribunes, and demand to be milked less.


    Roman Empire: You have two cows. The Romans kill one and threaten to kill the other if you don't capitulate. When you do, they recruit the other cow into their legion as auxilia. The cow gets Roman citizenship, and you starve to death.

    Holy Roman Empire: Your great-great-great-uncle left you a farm with hundreds of cows. Seven special cows decide who gets to milk them.

    30 Years War: You have a Protestant cow and a Catholic cow. They fight to the death until a Swedish cow and a French cow come by to calm things down. When they do, your pasture is so damaged by the fight that the Catholic cow starves to death, and the Protestant cow refuses to be milked.

    Hawai'i, kingdom of: Your ahupu'a has two pigs. Americans land on the island with two cows, and use the milk to buy the pigs, and the ahupu'a. Then they conspire to overthrow the government.

    Brazil, circa 1969: You have two cows. The Department of Public and Social Order (DOPS) comes by periodically to accuse one of being a communist and arrest it for six months. You have coffee and minas cheese with the government men when they come by.

    Brazil, circa 1994: The government has two cows, which they let you milk after filing out the proper forms. They sell the cows to multinational corporations promising to use the money to buy a an automatic milker, but the funds for the milker are 'diverted' and the corporation that now owns the cows charges you before letting you milk them.

    Brazil, circa 2008: You have two cows, while your neighbour has none. The government takes one of the cows and gives your neighbour half a glass of milk.
  • edited 2011-06-22 14:26:34
    Actually Nyktos the cow page I found does have some distinctions between state communism, Pure Communism, and Russian Communism. the example I was using was State Communism. You are describing that sort of idealistic Anarcho-communism which ot me is quite an ideal to shoot for but I don't have much hope for it.

    Pure
    Socialism:
    You have two cows. The government takes them and puts them in
    a barn with everyone else's cows. You have to take care of all the cows. The
    government gives you as much milk as you need.

    Bureaucratic Socialism: You have two cows. The government takes them
    and puts them in a barn with everyone else's cows. They are cared for by ex-chicken
    farmers. You have to take care of the chickens the government took from the
    chicken farmers. The government gives you as much milk and as many eggs as its
    regulations say you should need.

    Pure Communism: You have two cows. Your neighbors help you take care
    of them, and you all share the milk.

    Russian Communism: You have two cows. You have to take care of them,
    but the government takes all the milk.





  • Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    @Tnu1138

    > I mean gov ernment c0ntrolls aspects of every little thing.

    You really, really, really need to stop with your paranoia.

    Let me show you what's wrong with your thinking:

    > rationing out resources by the threat of force

    I have NEVER seen anyone threaten me or my parents with "YOU WILL BUY FIVE ORANGES, AND ONLY FIVE ORANGES, OR ELSE".

    > controlling our social and personal behaviors

    I can go outside in the rain and dance like an idiot.  I can run screaming down the street in speedos if I so wish.  Your point is invalid.

    > restricting mutual voluntary interactions because "they" deam it nessecary

    I have never had police telling me that I can't go and hang out with my friends.

    ----

    > I've pretty much stopped trusting any sort of authority or orginization. There is no such thing as a benevolent state. So it is best to limit the functions and role of the state. Ideally to abolish it. To reject all authority whether it be of the state, of the elite, of the majority, whatever it may be authority comes from the will of a collective and it must be rejected.

    The problem with your thinking this is that the absence of a state does NOT and WILL NEVER mean the absence of some sort of leadership power structure.  Anarchy will not sustain itself.
  • edited 2011-06-22 14:37:55
    Actually personal behavior is also to include the banning of drugs, the use of censorship, and "obscenity" laws. These are just plain evil. Mutual interaction can be business and such. Rationing hasppens in many countries the state seizes the property and decides how much everyone gets. You don't notice that you're being forced to "buy" it from them because it's a part of you beloved taxes.

    Also Glenn I forgot to say the word you were looking for is pessimistic.
  • Those are good things, Tnu.
  • edited 2011-06-22 14:42:49
    no Not really. How are they good thign s? Oh and not to mentin the mutal interaction of marriage and banning entiere lifestyles.
  • Before I say anything, when you say censorship laws you mean that whole "not letting obscene language on TV, radio, etc." thing, right?
  • Yes blockign content based on any number of abrertrary concepts. suxh as banning the showing of homosexuality or any siort of sex, banning certain topics, Censorship is evil.
  • Wait, why do we need sex on TV? Also, when have we banned lifestyles?
  • when we banned drugs, when we make laws turniing homosexuals in to second class citizens, et cetera. When we ban public nudity. It's not that we need it it's that it's a form of free speech what are you a socially authoritarian conservative? Free speech is non negotiable.
  • Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    > when we make laws turniing homosexuals in to second class citizens

    If you're talking about not having laws that protect against discrimination based on sexual orientation then the problem is that "we don't have laws protecting rights yet", NOT "we have laws oppressing people".

    If you're talking about people doing defense-of-marriage stuff, though, yes, you're right.

    As for banning drugs (especially harder drugs), that's because the rest of society has to pay for the consequences.  Police do crack and heroin busts because that disrupts gangs and organized crime--which cuts down on violent crime in communities.

    I don't get laws against public nudity, since I don't really care much (and find nudity mildly amusing and little more than that), but I'd say that if people want to make a law like this for themselves, I have no real authority to say no to it.  Unless you want to call up your local constitutional lawyer and bring this up to federal appeals courts or something.
  • Banned drugs (except for one, depending on your viewpoint) will kill you, the only laws that can be viewed as making gays second class are gay marriage bans which I assume will be repealed rather than used as a basis for more laws, public nudity is disgusting and people have a right to not have to see that, and free speech has never been non-negotiable.
  • Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    Well, harder drugs like cocaine and heroin have well-documented very bad health and psychological effects.

    As for marijuana, which is probably what you're talking about, IIRC it was found to be less addictive or harmful than alcohol or tobacco.  People are trying to phase out tobacco use gradually.  Alcohol, though, when consumed in moderation may have beneficial health effects.
  • People have a right to fuck up their own lives. and the reaosn for the criminal relationship to these drugs is BECAUSE they are banned. You decriminalize them and the crime aspect fades away.
  • edited 2011-06-22 15:04:48
    People have a right to fuck up their own lives.

    I think I just laughed so hard that my ass exploded.
  • edited 2011-06-22 15:06:18
    Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    > People have a right to fuck up their own lives.

    I wholly agree.

    But people don't have a right to fuck up their lives and others' lives along with it.

    People also don't have the right to fuck up their own lives just for the rest of us to pay for their treatment.
  • I don't think you can screw up your own life without bringing somebody else down a little.
  • They need to pay for their own treatment they fucked themselves over and it's their responsibility to fix it.
  • edited 2011-06-22 15:11:40
    Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    So does this mean that you would rather leave them to starve and die on a street-corner or under a bridge or something?  Because most drug addicts don't have money to pay for stuff.  Thankfully there are a lot of charities to help drug addicts get back their lives, but they're still not enough.

    And what about fucking up other people's lives?  What about the child or spouse of a drug addict?  What about organized crime dealing drugs and killing people over it?  What about addicts spending money on drugs and grinding the local economy to a halt?  What if people come to school or work too stoned to do anything?  What if people get blood-transmitted diseases through their drug habits and them pass them onto non-addicts?
  • Orginized crime deals drugs BECAUSE IT'S ILLEGAL and thus it's in their market. It's not done by criminals because it's bad it's done by criminals because it's illegal. These charities are somthing I quite support I just don't support it being on taxpayer dime. There is a fundamental difference.
  • You decriminalize the drugs and the crikmkinal element starts to fade away when the drugs go in to the hands of legitamite businesses and pharmicutical companies who actually b other to make sure thigns are in safe doeses, check someones ID, et cetera.
  • edited 2011-06-22 15:18:47
    Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    ...I don't think there is such a thing as a "safe dose" for some of these substances.

    There is no legitimate market for some goods, y'know.
  • You realize this SAME EXACT THING happened with prohibition right? The only difference is that prohibition actually happened through legitimate means. It doesn't make it any less wrong but it happened through legitimate means.
  • edited 2011-06-22 15:25:04
    Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    And alcohol has a long record and history of being safely consumed, it is mostly non-addictive, and it actually has health benefits in moderate amounts.

    Face it; not all problems can be solved by laissez-faire capitalism and entirely voluntary action on the part of individuals.
  • I reccomend you look at Penn And Teller Bullshit episode on the War on Drugs.
  • The other difference is that alcohol doesn't turn you into a nigh-invulnerable berserker in the same way that, say, PCP does. Different narcotics cause different amounts of damage to their users and the people around them.
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