I'm really scared that my country is starting to gravitate towards Fascism

Radd

I recommend you give us an unbiased source of information or else none at all.

glennmagusharvey

I would ask you for a link, though Penn and Teller are not exactly the most trustworthy source of information on sociological processes.  They are entertainers first and foremost, not educators or researchers.

Nyktos

@Tnu1138:

Actually Nyktos the cow page I found does have some distinctions between state communism, Pure Communism, and Russian Communism.

"State communism" is an oxymoron. You can have a state ruled by communists, but by definition if the state still exists, you're not operating under a communist system.

If "Russian communism" refers to the ideology of the later-day Soviet Union, it's not really communist at all, even if it's what a lot of people (who aren't communists) would associate the term with.

Tnu1138

Oh you could do better? From my understandng there is no such thing as an unbiased source of information. Everyone has a bias.

ColorPrinter

You could at least find a better source than Penn and Teller, for crying out loud.

Radd

^^ That's no excuse.

Tnu1138

I'd also reccomend a peice done by ShaneDK on the issue I am pretty sure  he keeps footnotes and sources on the matter. Also Nyktos you fail to understand that there are many forms of each ideology There is anarcho-communism which you describe just as there is state communism. Likewise there is anarcho-capitalism/Pure Capitalism, state capitalism, and Crony Capitalism.

Radd

Link please. I have no clue which piece to read.

IanExMachina

Obligatory link from me to The Lancet study on drug harm.

glennmagusharvey

Who is ShaneDK?

At least I know who Penn and Teller are, and I know that The Lancet is a British medical science journal.

Tnu1138

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/liberty-positive-negative/

(not drugs just a Berlin source he was a social theorist not a drug researcher I was going a little bit on a different topic there just to clarify)

IanExMachina

The Lancet article looks at drug harm and is the work of several experts in field.

Tnu1138

Also the Federal government has no authority in the issue. it's a states rights issue.

Nyktos

@Tnu1138:

I'd also reccomend a peice done by ShaneDK on the issue I am
pretty sure  he keeps footnotes and sources on the matter. Also Nyktos
you fail to understand that there are many forms of each ideology There
is anarcho-communism which you describe just as there is state
communism. Likewise there is anarcho-capitalism/Pure Capitalism, state
capitalism, and Crony Capitalism.

Sure, but the whole point of communism is that it's stateless. There's already a word for "communism, but with a central authority": socialism.

Tnu1138

I thougth there was a difference between state communism and socialism.

Nyktos

There are a lot of different types of socialism.

Tnu1138

no the only way to get to pure communism from my understandign would first be a move to anarcho-syndicalism thorugh a massive cultural shift.

Tnu1138

the way I see it state communism is where the government takes yoru cows and gives you the milk. State socialism is where the government takes one cow and gives it to someone else forcing you both in to joining a collective to teach him how to care for the cows.

PURE SOCIALISM:

You have two cows.  The government takes them and puts them in a barn
with everyone else's cows.  You have to take care of all the cows.  The
government gives you as much milk as you need.

IanExMachina

Libertarianism: You have two cows. However you have no public services and so die out in the middle of nowhere.

OR

Libertarianism: You had two cows, but you shot them due to you being paranoid and assuming the state was using them as a means to force your behaviour.

Tnu1138

Wow you relaly hate Libertarianism don't you? I would actually sell one cow and buy a bull then start breeding the cows and start my own business venture. I don'ty need a fucking social program to babysit me.

IanExMachina

I don't hate it I just don't agree it is a good idea for a country, but the two cows thing as a real comparison is silly, so I was making a point.

Tnu1138

The cows analog God you people are depressing. I also take it you don't vote Liberal Democrat and instead vote Green?

IanExMachina

I voted socialist

(In the local, I voted Lib Dem in the national).

TheConductor

You know Britain has more than two parties don'tcha?

Tnu1138

on an overall scale I would vote Liberal Democrat, on a purely economic basis Conservative, and on a purely social scale Green.

InsanityAddict

I voted Pirate Party! God, I love plural democracy. 

Tnu1138

I quite like the sound of it myself I wish we had it. Also a worldview that says there is no place for classical liberalism is too depressing to live in. Seriously how can you stand to live with thsatt mindset? Where folks like Berlin, Thomas Jeffersion, Ludwig von Misas, Adam Smith, and other classical liberals are somehow crazy at best and evil at worst?

Iaculus

Well, to be fair, Thomas Jefferson was pretty crazy. He was the guy who suggested that a healthy country should have regular rebellions in order to kill off its dissenting population.

Tnu1138

I would have through the rebellions would be to kill off oppressive government. Honestly i'm of the mindset that we're long overdue for a revolution.

Iaculus

Nope. He expected the residing government to 'correct' them by putting down the rebellion. Brutally. This from a guy who'd just participated in the American Revolution.

Like I said, crazy.