Animu/Mango General

fourteenwings · 2020-01-15 06:08:25

I don't want to argue this, mainly because it's a whole lot of different threads that lead to an observable but irrelevant-to-me point about the real world.

I'll try to just leave some freeform thoughts here:

It would be hard to actually describe anime as attempting to espouse a politicized ideology ever outside of like, nationalism*1, traditional values and a respect for government structures*2, so a lot of these people are just projecting
There are a lot of anime where the entire cast is female and they're just doing a thing, and nobody cares, this is apolitical
Sazae-san is a very different anime from what is aimed at otaku, so when people say "anime is free of x", they're referring to that sort of anime. I mean, if Japan's output was nothing but Sazae-san type anime, Funi and CR wouldn't even exist. Even NHK anime are usually different from what is aimed at otaku (see the currently airing Paralympic themed Breakers) . I mean, Paradise Kiss is an anime, but so is Hagure Yuusha no Estetica.

*1 Even Eureka Seven AO, which was a series that addressed Okinawa vs Japan very briefly, resorted to an ending where the only people willing to help the protagonists in the whole world was the Japanese government.

*2 Literally all of YuYuYu.

Mainly though, I don't know if a lot of the people who complain about these things are major consumers of other forms of media, but they are not wrong. I mean, I personally have indeed seen things change in the negative, making me long for the days I thought I was above shows. I've already talked about this in my unfortunate implications thread.

Anyways, regardless of everything, all I'll say is. Tell a story, a real one, not a dressed up moral tale. No matter what people say about it after that, only the disingenuous or self-interested will claim otherwise. That's not where Western entertainment media is right now.

Naas_Human · 2020-01-15 08:58:51

I feel like anime might have started getting more explicitly moral at some point.

I've been thinking about the evolution of "rival unfriendly towards the main character ends up changing her mind" in magical girl shows. With Rue and Fate, that aspect was more to do with their personal relationships, but Chris held a particular worldview and the show was building towards her changing it.

fourteenwings · 2020-01-15 10:23:01

I think there might be a sense of escalation in all aspects, because anime continues to be very anime and it has to get more anime in order for stuff to seem 'new'.

I think it's easy to see this sense of escalation in Madoka Magica, oddly enough. Whereas Madoka Magica was a show anybody could watch, Magia Record relies on you having watched a lot of anime to have expectations on where things will go.

I mean I guess it's a sequel, but going from "there are magical girls" to "there's a place where magical girls are saved" to "but you can't go to that place since the girls there are super territorial" to "oh I guess some of them aren't super territorial and don't mind allowing others in and allowing them to explore the whole city" doesn't really make sense unless you've watched a bunch of series where the first episode was very serious and then the next slows down significantly.

Symphogear does constantly try to have messages about the world, as poorly executed as they are. I mean, Chris and the FIS girls did have worldview stuff, but I want to say Carol was half and half (on one hand, her father was persecuted, on the other, nothing about Carol makes sense) and then Noble Red were like... something, and the Alchemists were even more something (possibly the most something of the whole show).... goal oriented, maybe?

I think something like GRANBELM though is still more concerned with the story taking cues from interpersonal conflict than any potential morals issues.

Naas_Human · 2020-01-15 10:46:36

Granbelm felt weak at certain points with how Mangetsu acted out familiar story beats without the same motivations. Like insisting to take part despite Shingetsu's objection, even though it seemed like the competition was only endangering people who are taking part, so she didn't have reasons like saving the normal world that she thought she came from.

Even though there were actual reasons for her being like that, I still came through it finding her uncool compared to major characters from other things.

glennmagusharvey · 2020-01-15 11:57:48

My point with Sazae-san is in reference to how people apparently raised a fuss about its cultural/political values back then yet it's seen as quaintly nostalgic now. More generally, the political dimensions of Japanese media are not absent from anime; they're simply not particularly meaningful to most western viewers who don't know the context. And this includes pretty blatant instances of it, such as the premise of Guilty Crown. And then furthermore, there's all the stuff that doesn't make it into a work and that dimension is largely invisible to audiences, particularly foreign audiences.

Anyway...

Magia Record is seen as commercially viable because it is based on an already wildly successful franchise. Better examples for "continuing to be more anime" and "having to be more anime" might come in the form of things like:
* the spate of magical girl shows that seem to have tried to take after Madoka Magica's big selling point of putting a darker spin on the genre and then themselves making a point of their own take on it, indicating a presumption of their creators that their audience will appreciate building on these earlier tropes
* the tons of isekai stories these days that are "isekai, but X", suggesting that pure isekai by itself is already considered a template rather than a thing of interest on its own
* Gintama, which I've heard builds its humor at least in part on jokes directed at the medium itself, and is reportedly wildly successful
* Hayao Miyazaki's infamously misquoted comment

That's not where Western entertainment media is right now.

I'm inclined to disagree but I will not push this point here.

Naas_Human · 2020-01-15 12:26:09

the spate of magical girl shows that seem to have tried to take after Madoka Magica's big selling point of putting a darker spin on the genre and then themselves making a point of their own take on it,

I'm not convinced this is actually even a thing. For one thing, creator statements have only grown easier to find, yet I've never seen any admission that this was the goal behind anything.

Plus, I've found very little material that specifically pointed to PMMM. It's not like say, the obvious legacy of Sailor Moon being everywhere.

The closest I've found where relation to PMMM was specifically identifiable in the actual plot, (rather than just references that had no effect on the plot) is Granbelm.

the tons of isekai stories these days that are "isekai, but X", suggesting that pure isekai by itself is already considered a template rather than a thing of interest on its own

"Transported to another world" is a setup, not a storyline. I don't think "isekai by itself" was ever really a thing.

Like, Digimon Adventure predates so many examples, but it's got a lot of deviation from what you'd think was the formula, judging by the currently popular ones.

glennmagusharvey · 2020-01-15 12:35:16

"Transported to another world" is a setup, not a storyline. I don't think "isekai by itself" was ever really a thing.

Like, Digimon Adventure predates so many examples, but it's got a lot of deviation from what you'd think was the formula, judging by the currently popular ones.

It's not blatantly isekai + X. Compare, say, a show literally titled "In Another World With My Smartphone", whose pitched intent in the title is obvious.

Naas_Human · 2020-01-15 12:43:26

I think that's more to do with LN titles turning into descriptions.

Naas_Human · 2020-01-15 12:50:49

And while these titles probably do draw on each other, I don't think it's a symptom of needing to be more, since (as far as I can tell), you're not gonna find a title that was promoted as "just" isekai by going further back.

fourteenwings · 2020-01-15 14:16:52

My point with Sazae-san is in reference to how people apparently raised a fuss about its cultural/political values back then yet it's seen as quaintly nostalgic now.

Huh, oh, I kind of just assumed based on the kind of audience that complains about this sort of thing and where their complaints are aimed.

Magia Record is seen as commercially viable because it is based on an already wildly successful franchise.

What I mean is, if Magia Record was supposed to be a real sequel to Madoka Magica and not a mobage anime, it's a failure on all accounts.

Plus I explained exactly how Magia Record depends on the viewer having watched lots of anime so they're used to how story beats move in these sorts of anime.

Isekai is a genre. The term itself references the "transported to another world" element of isekai stories, but that's clearly not all they are.

fourteenwings · 2020-01-23 12:22:35

Runway de Waratte is a very, very dramatic show. Like, sometimes it kind of veers into excessive intensity, and that's just after two episodes.

fourteenwings · 2020-01-25 12:01:01

I've always loved "playing a video game" anime, but the Infinite Dendrogram anime is a bit... too real for me. I mean, you're reminded within the first few minutes that whilst whatever is going on in the game, the protagonist is just like;

IRL.

I feel like almost all the atmosphere from the light novel was sacrificed for having everything from the entire first half of the first volume happen in the first episode. I mean, Ray learns what tians are and then is referencing them normally in about 10 seconds. All the dramatic tension and worldbuilding was just... gone.

Done this way, I'm certainly not buying the tension when he's concerned about the death of an NPC. Trying to convince the viewers otherwise, they basically gave him a catchphrase.

glennmagusharvey · 2020-01-31 21:50:19

https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1822806#msg59057117

i just wonderposted the virtues of gardening at a bunch of anime fans

glennmagusharvey · 2020-02-01 02:45:23

> search cdjapan for aokana merch

oh wow, there's like almost 10 full pages worth of merch

fourteenwings · 2020-02-01 06:25:54

You should filter out by what's available. CDJ doesn't get rid of listings for limited run goods except after like, a decade.

glennmagusharvey · 2020-02-01 13:48:02

fourteenwings wrote: »

You should filter out by what's available. CDJ doesn't get rid of listings for limited run goods except after like, a decade.

I didn't want to because I wanted to see what other music CDs it had.

would have been easier to check vgmdb lol

fourteenwings · 2020-02-01 15:47:50

January 29th marks the start of Bushiroad DJs vs avex pictures rap girls;

glennmagusharvey · 2020-02-03 04:38:00

Important Notice about TOM Points
This is an advance notice that barring any unforeseen issues, starting February 6, 2020 (JST), we will add a percentage cap to the amount of TOM Points that can be used per individual order on the TOM Shop. This percentage cap does not affect the total dollar value of TOM Points you can use across multiple orders.

Non-Premium members: 20% cap per order
Premium members: 50% cap per order

Well, now it's even more not worth resubscribing.

fourteenwings · 2020-02-07 07:51:24

@GMH: I seem to remember you caring about this? Maybe it was someone else though.

fourteenwings · 2020-02-07 14:10:22

Right now on MAL, people were review bombing Ishuzoku Reviewers with 10s because it got pulled from TV and Funi stopped streaming it due to it's... let's say "intensity".

But then it went above Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood and so fans of that show quickly mobilized themselves to review-bomb Ishuzoku with 1s.

And now there are like 17 threads about this. I love MAL, and I become more grateful for it's existence every day.

fourteenwings · 2020-02-08 05:45:09

A point that has been made elsewhere is that Funimation and Crunchyroll don't have age restrictions on accounts, and that many anime fans are U18s whose parents pay for their subscriptions.

I mean, imagine you think your little nerd is doping himself out on Black Clover and then you see him scrolling through the Funi menu on a Roku or whatever and "Dudes go to dungeon brothels to review monster women by having sexual relations with them" comes up.

glennmagusharvey · 2020-02-08 14:02:32

fourteenwings wrote: »

@GMH: I seem to remember you caring about this? Maybe it was someone else though.

Leesh was the Tower of God fan, if I recall correctly. Maybe AttObl as well.

fourteenwings wrote: »

A point that has been made elsewhere is that Funimation and Crunchyroll don't have age restrictions on accounts, and that many anime fans are U18s whose parents pay for their subscriptions.

I mean, imagine you think your little nerd is doping himself out on Black Clover and then you see him scrolling through the Funi menu on a Roku or whatever and "Dudes go to dungeon brothels to review monster women by having sexual relations with them" comes up.

To be fair, can't you just watch their videos without subscriptions anyway?

And that's not even considering legally-grey sites...

fourteenwings · 2020-02-08 15:25:48

Well, but from Funi's perspective, it was imperative to remove Ishuzoku Reviewers because it could have damaged the brand. Though they have licensed other ecchi things, those had premises that somehow in this topsy turvy world were less seedy than Reviewers.

can't you just watch their videos without subscriptions anyway?

I don't think Funi has a subscription free model but I can't check since their site is region locked outside the US and Canada.

Maybe AttObl as well.

Ah, it was definitely him.

I have no idea how to reach him (MAL?) but I hope he's excited!

glennmagusharvey · 2020-02-09 04:39:55

As a send-off/tribute to the past two decades, share your ranking of the Top 5 you've seen for each year starting from 2000 (or less or more!)

I feel like I'm mainly rehashing my faves, due to my own spotty coverage.

2019 - not yet awarded (honorable mention: Manaria Friends)
2018 - Beatless
2017 - Kemono Friends (honorable mention: Gabriel DropOut)
2016 - Ao no Kanata no Four Rhythm (honorable mention: Koe no Katachi)
2015 - Heavy Object (honorable mention: Plastic Memories)
2014 - [co-awarded] Cross Ange & Chaika the Coffin Princess
2013 - Kyoukai no Kanata (honorable mention: Arpeggio of Blue Steel)
2012 - Black Rock Shooter (honorable mention: Rinne no Lagrange)
2011 - The iDOLM@STER
2010 - Angel Beats (honorable mention: Yosuga no Sora)
2009 - Umi Monogatari (honorable mention: The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya)
2008 - The Tower of Druaga
2007 - Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha StrikerS (honorable mention: Rocket Girls)
2006 - Soukou no Strain (honorable mention: The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya)
2005 - Eureka Seven
2004 - Stratos 4 (honorable mention: Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha)
2003 - Stratos 4 (honorable mention: Stellvia of the Universe)
2002 - Kiddy Grade

That's as far back as I find it meaningful to go.

One of the bigger surprises is that Black Rock Shooter shows up here. I watched it semi-recently, so it wasn't in my repertoire until recently.

Also, Kyoukai no Kanata finally gets the love it deserves.

fourteenwings · 2020-02-10 05:49:56

I think Magia Record as a project is quite cynical. Take a well-respected story, turn it into a mobile game starring seiyuu unit (TrySail) that is a ripoff of the unit that originally performed the hit anime's opening (ClariS) and then make that into the same medium as the original project.

To be fair, as of episode 5 something promising appears to be happening in Magia Record. Though it's not even approaching Madoka Magica's level in terms of storytelling in substance (or even style, if that matters).

Naas_Human · 2020-02-10 06:36:20

I'm not sure why you'd bring up the casting and not the fact that using the universe for a character collector required making things not work the same. And all this happened after a certain other "things work differently so you can be a collector now" mobage proved to be Aniplex's biggest hit.

fourteenwings · 2020-02-10 12:04:42

I've probably discussed that more times than I can count so I guess I kind of just ignored it.

I feel like Fate/ has better legitimacy since everybody has a backstory you can kind of base things on and it's new takes on existing things, but Magia Record barely tries so it's original characters are barely a few levels above Battle Girl High Schoolers.

glennmagusharvey · 2020-02-10 17:00:03

[seen on the internet]

enjoyment =/= good show

Perhaps, but the problem is that there's no good metric for effectiveness of a narrative that doesn't involve a giant wall of text more words to explain exactly what is being measured.

fourteenwings · 2020-02-13 06:07:12

I don't think that's a problem?

Case in point, I was thinking about how Pretty Rhythm Rainbow Live was an innovative show, so I should forgive it for some of it's failings. However, looking back at my own posts made me realize that it was because Pretty Rhythm Rainbow Live tried to be so involved in a lot of sub-characters plots in that innovative way that the main character's suffered.

Sadly, modern children's idol shows eschew plotlines like "My dad killed your dad in a car accident and now we have to deal with it" or "My mom is a crazy stage mom who will crank up the insults whenever I make the slightest mistake" or "My father is a traditionalist who believes that it's best I and my mother are seen, not heard*".

I think one of the most strangely succesful plots involved Hiro, because "My mom is a former prostitute who ruined my sense of self worth and our relationship" is something that forces him to look inward, rather than involving a litany of other characters.

*The ending to Wakana's plot is quite childish, which I guess is expected for the demographic, but if Wakana's mother had kept her personality instead of 180-ing into a yankee, it would have made her whole thing much more impactful.

But like, I understand wanting to assure children that somebody will fight for you very very loudly after the stifling and depressing home-life Wakana had to suffer with till that point.

fourteenwings · 2020-02-13 06:36:34

2019 - Han-Gyaku-Sei Million Arthur
2018 - Last Period ~Owarinaki Rasen no Monogatari~
2017 - Aikatsu Stars! Hoshi no Tsubasa
2016 - NORN9 Norn+Nonet (Honorable Mention: Mahou Shoujo Ikusei Keikaku)
2015 - Ranpo Kitan: Game of Laplace
2014 - selector infected WIXOSS
2013 - Hakkenden -Touhou Hakken Ibun-
2012 - Eureka Seven AO (Hon. Men: AKB0048)
2011 - UN-GO (Hon. Men: .hack//Quantum)
2010 - Tantei Opera Milky Holmes
2009 - Birdy the Mighty DECODE:02
2008 - Birdy the Mighty DECODE
2007 - Bakugan Battle Brawlers
2006 - Fate/stay Night (Hon. Men: .hack//ROOTS)
2005 - Eureka Seven (Hon. Men: SoltyRei)
2004 - Uta~Kata (Hon. Men: Burst Angel)
2003 - Peace Maker Kurogane
2002 - .hack//SIGN
2001 - Figure 17: Tsubasa & Hikaru

Our lists are so very different... I'd have Black Rock Shooter on here, but the shows that are here in place of it are basically part of my DNA.

Maybe I should watch some more stuff from 2019 so the top of my list isn't;

Howdy, Stranger!

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Animu/Mango General

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