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Comments
Yeah I've heard the one that's like "he challenged him in the traditional way" but it's agreed that using the Voice to help was a Bad Thing.
^Speaking of Dunmer and Argonians, slightly OT but I felt so freaking bad for Brand-Shei. A Dunmer raised by Argonians, I can't even begin to imagine the shit he must get.
I don't know anything about the empire but what I've seen in the game, sorry. By which I mean, I don't know anything about them, really.
I don't really see how. The Imperials don't have a reason to crack down on them like the Nords did. In fact, reading up on them, it seems they're fairly respected among the Empire, in Morrowind at least.
Then again, most players have a tendency to use the Voice to kill everything and anything. I don't, but that's just because I suck at aiming it.
I mean to say that the disempowerment of the Nords will lead them to new levels of hatred of foreign influence.
It also should be mentioned that High King Torygg was one of Ulfric's greatest supporters, and would have stepped down if Ulfric really wanted the throne.
Honorable, or not there was literally no reason to kill the High King other than to make a political point.
^A free Skyrim means a divided humanity, a united humanity could barely fend off the Thalmor. Though I find it abhorrent I'd rather have oppression than complete and utter genocide.
^^^ I do wonder whether the rules are different for Dovahkiin. XD Considering all the people that go around Unrelenting Force-ing NPCs for the evulz.
Buuuuut yeah still sticking with the "honorable(ish) combat gone wrong" thing because from what I see you can't eviscerate people with Fus Ro Dah. XD
From what Neo_Crimson has said, siding with the Empire actually puts a Jarl into place who frees them from opression.
gah what
I dont' know the motivations behind it or where it happened. All I know is there were stabbings and Fus Roh Da-ings, which could have simply been knocking him into a wall and stabbing him as far as I know.
I think the story goes that Ulfric waltzed on in to the palace and it went down in there. I wish both sides could be a little more specific regarding, you know, the death of the High King.
But how did the fight itself go down?
^Ulfric says that he knocked Torygg down via Fus then stabbed him before he could get back up.
Honorable combat, ladies and gents!
Well it was supposed to be, but he would've earned more brownie points for not...doing...that. e__e;;
Because I think it was the Greybeards that said he would've won on his own merits if he hadn't made a show of blowing him around like a ragdoll, or however the fight went down, because they don't specify enough asdfghjklffffffffff
both sides are prone to theatrics, what are you gonna do. 8|
Nevermind. I just realized I don't want to have this discussion. Off to play Catherine y'all.
Yeah, I can see what they were going for.
They really didn't implement it well, though.
This is not necessarily how things work out, though. A leader instated by a foreign power isn't likely to be well-liked simply because of their race, at least in the real parallel cultures of our world at that time in history.
I know Skyrim is "just a video game" but to hell with that phrase, really. Bethesda created a potentially complex political scenario with strong parallels to actual history and seem to have forgotten to make it resemble the actual considerations of such a scenario.
I mean, I kinda wish they didn't draw on Nazi parallels for the Stormcloaks for one thing. The Nazis had huge adoration for their Scandinavian forebears, so throwing the hyper-racist slant on Viking equivalents seems to me in bad taste. Like some writer at Bethesda thought they could throw that in and seem clever, you know? They're not Germans, so of course it's all cool. I dunno, I guess it's just personal. A good handful (or even most of all you, I dunno which of my posts you read) might know this, but I'm a direct, male-line descendant of a Hitler Youth member.
It's something that I wish I could escape, of all places, in fantasy games. For most of us white people, finding a pre-racist period in our own history means looking at the mid-Renaissance and timeframes before that, so it's personally frustrating that I can't escape the German guilt in a period where the racism is artificially inserted rather than having a conflict-based reason for actually being there. Putting that burden on a genetically parallel, but pre-racism society when their notorious descendants were sticklers for genealogy strikes me as clumsy, careless irony.
In short, the idea of the Nords being racist just because strikes all the wrong chords with me, and given the other historical parallels in game and its lack of political subtlety, I'm not entirely sure it was an accident.
blah blah blah whine whine whine
Once again, just going on what the Wiki says :V
But according to it, the Nords originally came from a place called- naw, to hell with it, I'll copy-paste
^^I'd say it's more to deliberately manipulate the player. Nothing gets people into more of a moral frenzy than racism (well, except pedophillia), Bethesda knows this and is exploiting it in order to force a "pick the lesser evil" situation.
Let me put it this way. We've already had this discussion, one that has been going on all over the internet. You can't say Bethesda doesn't know how to push people's buttons.
Really I think the question of who was in the right is kind of pissing in the wind and isn't really a part of my main gripe about the basic initial 'choice' which is basically that all you know for certain about these two groups is one tried to kill you and the other didn't. Smashing those preconceptions would make for a great game, but I kind of think Bethesda was trying to make the initial choice an even-handed one when it certainly isn't.
-shrug-
All I'm saying is the question doesn't go over that easily for me. Then again, I'm kind of weird, but I just can't see it as a "This group tried to kill me, this one didn't" thing.
no. go away and let them argue for my enjoyment.
It's a personal thing but when people try to kill me with a forklift it makes decisions pretty easy.
Which is pretty much the reason we argued
or at least i did, i dunno about malk
I argue to fill in the void that comes from having nobody who loves me. ;_;
just like juan then
>Implying I'm not the most beloved human being in this earth
now that's hilarious
pffthahaha
I disagree that the main quest line was not compelling. For me it went something like this, as best I can recall:
"Damn Imperials, trying to chop off my head! Ok I'll follow this stromcloak guy to his home town. And decide where to go from there.
Nice stormcloak guy's sister wants me to go warn the Jarl about the Dragon? Makes sense, it's a big city so I'd probably go there anyway, and the town needs protection. Before I leave, the merchant with the sister that seems to be digging my stunning orcish physique asks me to rescue his claw from some bandits. I'll do that one later...
Ok, Jarl has been warned. Says he needs some kind of Dragon stone thing, which just so happens to be in the same location as the Dragon Claw for Riverwood dude. That's two birds with one stone, so why the heck not?
Return the dragon stone to Whiterun after finding some weird writing on a wall of the ruin. Dragon attacks. I bring it down with berserker rage and a few might cleaves of my axe, and absorb its soul! Wait... now I can knock people around with my voice! They say I'm a dragonborn, who will be able to gain great power if I go see these Greybeard guys. Hey, maybe I'll be able to shout people to death like that Ulfric dude someday..."
To review: Main quest line gives promise of cool powers few people in the world can ever achieve. What needs to be more compelling than that, if you're not interested in the whole Dragon war thing?