I am not ready to quit TV Tropes yet

Elbeem

@Cygan: But how do you encourage something like that on any kind of effective scale, especially when the fans of those books and shows and plays are so fickle as to completely shut down at the mere thought that their interests are niche? This, after all, is the inevitable reaction implied in your previous post. One that apparently is unique to classic lit fans.

Does Eddie post a thread titled "Hey Guys Eddie Speaking, Please Talk About Les Mis Right Now"? And what recourse does he have when the initial flurry of posts die off, and people go back to talking about Buffy? Eddie has neither the time nor means to undertake the epic amount of cat-herding that would be required to get people to of their own free will stop wanting to talk about the things that most interest them. If he could, he would basically be the first person to manage it in the history of pop culture.

But let me ask you this: since Wiki Groaning is obviously an important issue for you, what is stopping you from going over to Special Projects right now and getting the ball rolling on a classic lit entry pimp effort? From going on IRC, or making the call here to rally the troops to participate in your thread? This is a volunteer-driven community, after all. If, for whatever reason, you are unwilling to spend your time and effort to do something important to you, do you not see the hypocrisy in blaming those who may be less interested in the subject for not doing it for you?

I do not believe I ever implied in my initial post, or in my response to your post, that the situation was desirable. I simply stated that the situation is just how it is. I don't take offense to people not liking how it is, but only to those who seek to imply that TV Tropes staff is somehow responsible for a phenomenon that arises from people just being people.

Nova

But how do you encourage something like that on any kind of effective scale, especially when the fans of those books and shows and plays are so fickle as to completely shut down at the mere thought that their interests are niche? This, after all, is the inevitable reaction implied in your previous post. One that apparently is unique to classic lit fans.

I outright stated in my post that I do not know how to get the ball rolling, or else I would have already done so.

I don't take offense to people not liking how it is, but only to those who seek to imply that TV Tropes staff is somehow responsible for a phenomenon that arises from people just being people.

When did I ever state this?

It is a problem with Wiki culture in general, and one that is undesirable. That's it.

Elbeem

I apologize, as I did not mean to imply you did state that. It is definitely a sentiment that has been going around amongst tropers since it was brought up by some of our critics, though.

Like I said, I agree that it's not a great situation, and that the site could benefit from a more thorough treatment given to some of those works.

MillerCross

That's what we have Special Efforts for, then. Make a thread, summon the people who normally don't post out of the woodwork. Who knows...it might help more than you think.

Kino

Motherfuckers haven't watched Raging Bull? The fuck is wrong with that place?!

MillerCross

Raging bull has a page, Kino.

Just sayin'

RocketDude

@DarkDecapodian: Well, she never really finalized the stuff she put together for us, so...

Vorpy

I can't Trope Overdose anything by Shakespeare because he's fucking dead. He hasn't written new material for me to tropify. If he would do that, then I would be able to say more things that haven't been said yet.

Bob

Dark: Yes. Sorry about that.

MillerCross

I think that's one of the problems, but to expand on it...

The Trope Overdosed list is made of works which have more than one installment. As such, they're bound to have more tropes. Not only do they get each a trope per different story, but they also get the sequel-related meta fictional tropes, such as even better sequel or whatever.

It's really hard to make a page as long as Homestuck when the works in question are not as long as Homestuck. 

RocketDude

Or something like TF2, which has tropes both about the gameplay, characters and supplementary material.

Vorpy

And I don't understand how I could make Shakespeare remixes of songs to actually be funny, and a lot of his characters are not fun to derail or distort.

MillerCross

Really? I'd say that Hamlet is fun to distort. Hell, academics have been doing it for the last three centuries.

Bob

Hell, I took an entire class based around derailing / distorting Shakespeare characters.

Engrish_Ivy

Question!

Does There Is No Such Thing As Notability apply for tropes as well as works, or just the latter? It's kind of hard to tell, going by the page...

ClockworkUniverse

^People Sit On Chairs provides a notability requirement for tropes.

Nova

All works are notable.

We consider every work notable. Yes, every one.

on the page

MillerCross

Well, the page specifies works and doesn't mention tropes, so I'm forced to assume that yes, yes it is only work related.

god I hope it's only work related

Ninja'd by Truthiness.

Engrish_Ivy

...So wait, why were people bringing up TINSTAN for things that aren't works, like the Baka page, and some of the Useful Notes?

MillerCross

Because misunderstandings? -shrug-

Nova

-shrug-

ClockworkUniverse

Because...I dunno. It's not a valid argument.

Vorpy

People read the Name, and think it can apply to everything I guess?

MillerCross

Laconic version doesn't help, as it doesn't specify, though.

Engrish_Ivy

Ok then.

@Meeble: There's been a misunderstanding! It was things like the Baka page and (some) Useful Notes that were bugging me specifically, and it turns out that it's People Sit On Chairs wait you've probably already read this. Anyways. Franchises that are entry pimped heavily are annoying, but that can't be helped, much; the tropes and Useful Notes pages of questionable value that fans like to make, though, is a problem.

Elbeem

Engrish: Those things are definitely not covered by No Such Things As Notability, so anyone using that argument to defend them is wrong.

I will point out, however, that those are also not tropes at all. They are notes pages designed to help people understand their media better.

If you feel like a specific one of those pages has no value, bring it up in TRS. It worked for the Bra Sizes one, and if you find a page that you can successfully argue will similarly cause problems, then they will at least have a shot as well.

Also keep in mind that a page "having no value" is pretty subjective, so don't take it too personally if the TRS attempt fails depending on the circumstances.

DarkDecapodian

@ Bob: Damn, that's a shame. Shall I let the others know?

Edited for consideration.

Engrish_Ivy

@Meeble: You'll forgive me if I am loath to set foot in TRS, these days...

Elbeem

I can't really say I blame you. I have to take extended sanity breaks from it myself, sometimes.

Nova

Yeah, I have only really stepped inside it twice in months (Once to start the thread discussing renaming Nakama, and once now to try and garner support for renaming The Mario.)