Lolicon: Good or bad

glennmagusharvey

FWIW, there's a difference between government regulation and industry self-regulation.  Our videogame content rating system is an example of the latter; an attempt at the former regarding violence in videogames was recently shot down by the Supreme Court of the United States.

> Lolicon manga... it's just pictures.  It isn't as if you can just whip
out your manga and suddenly have the ability to easily rape kids.

You just gave me a very, very, very bad idea for a metroidvania powerup.

Nova

I will also link people in this thread to the concept of Media Influence.

captainbrass

I think the real problem is not so much that lolicon might cause people who wouldn't otherwise abuse kids to do so, but that it might be used by people who would as a reinforcement to their existing obsessions. Unfortunately, as someone pointed out the last time I tried that one, a lot of things fall in that category e.g. criminals love films that make them look like total badasses, and so on.

It's not straightforward, but I still don't think a totally liberal, no regulation at all approach is a good one.

AHR

CB: Definitely, but the same thing can be said for any porn. It's why I tend to be so "oh, it's just porn, fuhgeddabouddit." Because I am working under the assumption that porn still works the same way it does now. You usually have to be 18+ to access most of it, it's illegal to have in kid-related places, etc. etc.

MillerCross

Yes, but...well...with the internet on the out and out, it's really easy to circumvent that.

Elbeem

Cyg: I'm not sure which position you are supporting with the link to the Media Influence article. While it indicates that some people have made claims that media can have an undue influence, it's pointed out several times in the article that there's not really any scientific data to back that up. It further indicates that violent crimes have dropped sharply since 1992, with no appreciable reduction in violent media, which seems to indicate that violent media was not the cause of previous high crime rates.

Nova

Not supporting anything.

glennmagusharvey

That article looks like a mess.

Elbeem

^^ Ah, fair enough then.

^ Agreed. It's really hard to draw any kinds of conclusions from it.

glennmagusharvey

It looks very promising as a research topic though.

Unfortunately, I never majored in media, communications, or journalism, and even if I did, I'm not studying it right now...

Engrish_Ivy

> I'm such a lolicon I totally had to schlick after reading the last Kojika.

Why are you telling us this?

Counterclock

@Engrish_Ivy.

Isn't it obvious?

Kino

@OP: I'm gonna go with bad.

InsanityAddict

Bad, in the same way rape simulators, bimbofication stories and torture porn are bad. Pity people need that sort of stuff to get off, would cut off any meatspace bros who are into it, but wouldn't ban it.

The problem with the peeps who both consume the media and put into practice what it depicts, is an attitude problem first and foremost. They use loophole-riddled arguments to justify the morality of their fetishes, refuse to compromise and settle for roleplay and related substitutes(seriously, would someone fantasizing about bumping uglies with aliens try to become an astronaut instead of dressing up a hooker?) and find therapy an evil, controlling device. It's solipsistic narcissism(see it in the way they constantly feel the need to shove it into every thread and spin off long moonlogic arguments that feel like they're in love with the sound of their own typing).

So if the zoophiliac who uses an inflatable sheep or faps while the animals on his farm are getting it on, or the pedo who faps to family snapshots, or the biastophile who dumps sought-after rapefics on the net every week ever outed themselves, I'd point and laugh. But I wouldn't call the fuzz until they'd actually start justifying their hobby.

Also, possibility of mental health issues, etc.

AHR

The problem with the peeps who both consume the media and put into practice what it depicts,

I...I think that's a small minority. 

InsanityAddict

Meh, doesn't change the argument that you can't shaft it all on the medium. The bros  in question would discover their fetishes without the help of it, and they'd still try to justify their deviancy in any manner possible.

AHR

But they would justify it with or without the porn. I mean, I remember seeing interviews of pedophiles justifying it by saying that the people they had sex with would feel emotionally wounded if they didn't have sex with them. No porn necessary.

I'm not saying it should be given away freely, but porn isn't exactly --that-- easy to come across, even WITH the internet.

InsanityAddict

Meh, doesn't change the argument that you can't shaft it all on the medium. The bros in question would discover their fetishes without the help of it, and they'd still try to justify their deviancy in any manner possible.

 But they would justify it with or without the porn. I mean, I remember seeing interviews of pedophiles justifying it by saying that the people they had sex with would feel emotionally wounded if they didn't have sex with them.

Ehm, I don't think we're in disagreement, we seem to basically make the same argument.

AHR

Huh. So we are. My bad. I think I misread it. 

Dynamod

porn promotes the behavior within it. (these people are doing X, and enjoying themselves)

so lolicon porn promotes lolicon behavior.

not to mention that lolicon porn is VERY unrealistic.

InsanityAddict

The annoying thing is that there are studies who confirm this and studies that deny this idea. The social effects of pr0n page is a completely mess, with the only research supporting that statement at first glance being from 25 years back.

AHR

I don't think it helps when a lot of the studies use criminals as their test subjects.