Lolicon: Good or bad

MillerCross

Because the derail is making people sad over at the other thread and I'm bored of people complaining about derails, so...have at it.

AHR

NEITHER!

IT IS SUBJECTIVE!

RedEyedAbyss

They have the freedom to do whatever the hell they want, but I have the freedom to not have to put up with it.

MillerCross

^^ well, yeah, but I just ran out of cheesy thread titles.

Forzare

I wouldn't say it's good or bad.  It's just a thing. 

I think any kind of child pornography, or taking advantage of children in real life is terrible.  The people who participate in doing or creating that kind of stuff should be locked up.   But... that's not what lolicon is.  It's just pictures and words.  There isn't a child being hurt to create it.  There's no actual children involved.


It's like rape fiction.  It's something that people don't seem to have quite as much of a problem over, but I see it the same way.  No one is actually being raped or hurt by it, so I don't have a problem with it existing.

I don't like it, but that doesn't mean I feel like I need to stop other people from liking it.


Unless they're actual pedophiles who fuck kids anyway.

Crimson

I think it's reprehensible, and gives anime a bad name. Any excuses about how it technically doesn't harm anyone, or any claims about subjectivity, are just that. There are no excuses, at all.

AHR

I shall second Forzare!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_effects_of_pornography

Also.

RedEyedAbyss

"This article's factual accuracy is disputed. Please help to ensure that disputed facts are reliably sourced. See the relevant discussion on the talk page."

This section in particular is worth reading.

MadassAlex

This isn't about lolicon to me; this is about paedophilia and its implications.

A paedophile is not necessarily a child molester, but current thinking combines the two concepts almost all the tome. This generally means there's no assistance out there for paedophiles who want to readjust their sexuality. Children are the ones who end up suffering, though.

If synthetic child porn can be a surrogate for actual children, then it's fine by me.

AHR

Abyss: Yeah, I should have clarified.

There is no solid scientific proof one way or another, and what is found is very very fuzzy and you can't limit people to do things based on what might be happening, until you can prove the link.

Innocent until proven guilty.

RedEyedAbyss

The inconclusive evidence is why I am technically unwilling to take a side. However, I still find it repulsive based on my encounters with lolicon fans.

Myrmidon

I say bad, because I hate internet lolicon debates like few other things.

I feel the same way about circumcision, by the way.

AHR

Abyss: Ah, don't we have some lolicon fans here? They're not all that bad, minus the derails.

Forzare

I find looking at it repulsive too, but as long as it isn't actually involving real children, I don't have a problem with just looking away and leaving it be.  I find looking at vore repulsive too, and those people aren't going out to actually eat each other alive, so I don't have a problem with people liking it.

Crimson

We do but they don't talk about it too often. At least they don't claim that KnJ is some sort of deep and intellectual deconstruction, like Signed.

DYRE

If synthetic child porn can be a surrogate for actual children, then it's fine by me.

The idea that porn is a replacement for actually doing the act depicted is a little bothersome.  That's pretty much saying that anyone who likes rape porn is actually a potential rapist, and the only thing stopping them is the fact that they have access to porn.  Rather, I think it's more like people have fantasies that do not actually represent things they want to do in real life, but since porn is available, they will enjoy that.  I mean, I'm sure there are lolicon fans who would potentially molest a child were it not for the fact that lolicon porn exists, but I am (optimistically) assuming that these people only represent a very small minority.

Forzare

^Exactly.  I know a vore fan in real life, but she doesn't want to actually be eaten in real life.  Fantasies aren't really representative of what you want in your real sex life, for most people.

RedEyedAbyss

"like Signed."

Yeah, that's the kind of fan I'm talking about. Though the bloke had more issues than that.

Central Avenue

 

glennmagusharvey

inb4 evilneko

MillerCross

Fairly sure some of them would if they could.

Counterclock

Hurting other people is bad, is this actually hurting anyone?

MadassAlex

I'm not saying that lolicons are child rapists waiting to happen; I'm saying that lolicon could be an outlet for those who could jump the deep end.

Malkavian

I'm just going to point out that the problem isn't just that lolicon is found icky by people. It's about people will use it and show it to children to present pedophilia as a completely normal thing. It's used by many people to promote and present it as something romantic or noble.

Hell, keep in mind there are people who consider Humbert a tortured and noble man who is constrained by society's petty chains and thus we should abolish sex age limits here in the west.

I'm not saying it should totally definitely be banned but it is a much more complicated issue than fans present it.

AHR

But you can't ban things because they are going to be abused.

Everything gets abused.

EVERYTHING.

Malkavian

We ban plenty of things because of their abuse potential. Weapons and drugs come to mind.

AHR

We monitor them. We regulate them.

MillerCross

And even then, different countries manage to not have them banned without turning into an anarchy-like mess.

OH HAY, NINJA AHR. Sorta.

Counterclock

Hey guys, mind if I use these arguments for violent video games as well?

RedEyedAbyss

I am somewhat concerned by the cultural implication of lolicon, namely the attitude men have towards such characters and how it affects their worldview on actual women. But that's a bigger can of worms.

AHR

^^...which side?