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How all the interesting discussions get locked...

2456

Comments

  • MadassAlexMadassAlex
    One foot in front of the other, every day.
    I think one thing that sorta allows drama to happen is that the rules don't take into account passive-aggressiveness or other surreptitious forms of manipulation. There's baiting and then there that, and it's up to mod discretion to know when to draw the line. 

    I just think it's silly that one can express the same criticism of another with the same intent, but one is warn/bannable because it's up-front and the other isn't because it pretends to be well-behaved. 

    Then again, passive-aggressiveness is something that just shits me up the wall. This might be an entirely personal gripe. 
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    I think that passive-aggressive stuff whould be warned via PMs/thread itself. Mostly because leaving drama and grudges alone is just the easiest way of letting drama build up and destroy threads later
  • NovaNova
    edited 2011-07-19 01:30:40
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    There's also the fact that some people say those passive-aggressive things with complete sincerity.

    -shrug- The one that pretends to be well-behaved gets more of a pass because it's not as immediately flameworthy.

    ^ And that.
  • MadassAlexMadassAlex
    One foot in front of the other, every day.
    ^ But that's punishment based on what's convenient/inconvenient for forum leadership, not what's actually going on. 
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    What?

    If it was what's convenient/inconvenient for the forum leadership, we'd just ban all the people who continually do all this sort of stuff.

    Rather, we have to make a decision. Is what was posted likely to cause drama? Because if it's not, then there's not really any reason to get rid of it except for a few people who get annoyed at the tone of the message rather than the content.

    Or something.

    People with word skills should explain what I mean.
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    That really does sound awful -_-;
  • BobBob
    edited 2011-07-19 02:03:28
    Okay, I think what you're trying to say is, it's not worth it to ban / warn someone over something if it's not likely to cause drama and the few people who would be offended by it take offense to the tone rather than the post itself.

    ...Right? I'm just as bad at explaining, so... yeah.
  • CounterclockCounterclock
    Belief
    Don't squash the mouse until you see its body. seeing the tail of a mouse isn't the same as seeing the body.

    Metaphors are all I can use >_>
  • MadassAlexMadassAlex
    One foot in front of the other, every day.
    tone of the message rather than the content

    My point is that the content is essentially the same whether it's acting politeness or up-front. The expression is different, but when you strip away that shallow features of the post, you're left with what the post expresses and its intent.  

    The intent of an aggressive post and a passive-aggressive post is the same. Punishing only the overtly aggressive posts (rather than both) creates a scenario where honesty and sincerity is punished when compared to underhandedness in the same situation. 
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    Okay, I think what you're trying to say is, it's not worth it to ban / warn someone over something if it's not likely to cause drama and the few people who would be offended by it take offense to the tone rather than the post itself.

    Basically, yes.

    The intent of an aggressive post and a passive-aggressive post is the same. Punishing only the overtly aggressive posts (rather than both) creates a scenario where honesty and sincerity is punished when compared to underhandedness in the same situation. 

    We don't need to punish people for their intents. We punish them for the results of their actions.
  • MadassAlexMadassAlex
    edited 2011-07-19 02:15:17
    One foot in front of the other, every day.
    I personally think that perspective enables some conflicts to happen, though, be it immediately or as tension mounts of wider expanses of time. 

    But you can meet it half-way. You don't need to temp or pemaban someone for that kind of thing, but a Mod PM and/or a warning could get the message across. 
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    We often do.
  • ElectivirusElectivirus
    The problem is that there shouldn't be hints of drama. There shouldn't
    be drama. why can't you guys just...discuss without going at each
    other's throats?
    Welcome to humanity.
  • CounterclockCounterclock
    Belief
    and yet Humanity built civilizations, upon which the term civilized relates to.
  • BobBob
    And said civilizations proceeded to go batshit insane, effectively ruining whatever inherent ties the term civilized had with the term civilization besides it's etymology.
  • InsanityAddictInsanityAddict
    Diet NEET
    That's just because the players in charge of said civilizations are dicking around.
  • CounterclockCounterclock
    Belief
    Actually Bob, being civilized is more a work in progress.

    Can you name a civilization that didn't start out batshit insane?

  • MadassAlexMadassAlex
    One foot in front of the other, every day.
    Germanic barbarians crushed the Romans, deal w/ it. 
  • SotiCotoSotiCoto
    RE-ANIMATOR

    I don't bait people.
    I don't know how the lack of the usual cues you would get talking to someone in person is crippling your judgement here... but nothing I'm doing is to bait others. Why would I want to? I don't care how others react. When I'm asked a question, I answer it. When I'm told something wrong, I correct it.  When people are being silly around me, I usually react to myself, a habit I got into years ago rather than using facial expressions and can't be arsed to correct. In any case, if I'm being misrepresented, I'm compelled to correct the issue.


    Anyway, as regards the offending thing... well, I've said all that before. My advice is not to leave responsibility for your mental wellbeing in the hands of someone who doesn't know how to handle it, nor give a damn about it. If I were to get offended by anything you guys said, it would be my fault for leaving myself vulnerable, and my responsibility to ensure it doesn't happen again. Despite the illusion of a certain "manner" to my posting, thankfully it doesn't tend to happen much.

  • CounterclockCounterclock
    Belief
    Ummm, Cool story Soti?
  • BobBob
    Riveting tale, chap.
  • MadassAlexMadassAlex
    edited 2011-07-19 04:58:33
    One foot in front of the other, every day.
    > Blaming the victim
    > Making excuses for not internally improving

    A mighty tale, brethren.  
  • SotiCotoSotiCoto
    edited 2011-07-19 05:00:13
    RE-ANIMATOR
    ... Sorry for the block of text.  Didn't mean to ramble quite that much. Even shortened it twice.

    And Alex, your misinterpretation isn't helping anyone. Least of all you.
  • MadassAlexMadassAlex
    One foot in front of the other, every day.
    I consider it cutting to the core of the issue at hand. 
  • InsanityAddictInsanityAddict
    Diet NEET
    There's a single criterium one can use to filter out all the posters who are on the way to either a ban, a breakdown or both: they have the incessant need to make every thread about them instead of the topic at hand.
  • CounterclockCounterclock
    Belief
    @Soti: Why do you care if he's misrepresenting you?
  • SotiCotoSotiCoto
    edited 2011-07-19 05:11:58
    RE-ANIMATOR
    Well Alex, you're mistaken. And though I've said such, I doubt I could convince you either way... so I wash myself of any involvement in your personal blame game.


    IA ... talking from a personal perspective + other people making it about X   (being the subject in question) seems to more usually be the case.

    @Counterclock Compulsion I suppose. Long-standing habit that arose from fear that I was losing my identity. I suppose at best interpretation I don't like being misrepresented because I subconsciously take it as an attack on my identity.
  • InsanityAddictInsanityAddict
    edited 2011-07-19 05:13:22
    Diet NEET

    That could be partially true, if not for the fact that the other posters who do this black hole gig conflate a political position(ill-defined conservatism and libertarianism, respectively, as if the reference wasn't blatant enough already) entirely with themselves. You do this by injecting every thread with your solipsistic branch of nihilism. This gives the impression that you're not so much discussing the topic as using the topic as an excuse to soapbox(and define) your own views.

     

  • SotiCotoSotiCoto
    RE-ANIMATOR

    Well, I don't have any excuses for that... if I'm allowed to say so.
    Everything is the same to a nihilist.
     I'm just trying to expand the event horizon... much like anyone else does with their own views, surely?

  • InsanityAddictInsanityAddict
    Diet NEET

    S'true, but if we take Tnu's example of libertarianism(if I'm allowed to namedrop), he broadened that philosophy into an ill-defined concept of freedom, and derailed many a discussion into said concept of freedom, that he made both his own philosophy as well as the discussion topic so vague and nebulous as to make both practically meaningless(or maybe he was just bad at wording his philosophy).

    This leads to both frustration with you and others for not understanding each other. Which is sort of a given in some branches of nihilism, but that would beg the question why you'd even bother discussing it.

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