Religious apologists and antitheists insulting one another

CaptainFargle

@Ian: Which is quite high on my list of reasons for wanting to eventually emigrate to The Netherlands or Scandinavia. A lot less God-Botherers there. 

ClockworkUniverse

@funnyguts: I was unaware of that...Hm. I need a bit to reconsider my argument

Though I maintain that, given what I said above, this could be reduced if these people were more educated about their own religions.

Vorpy

I thought she was an atheist or agnostic until she said otherwise here and now.

I am not a christian or a catholic, well, any religion for that matter. My beliefs are taken solely from my native heritage, which is why I find Captain Fargle's comments very disappointing and invasive. It's just I tend to take some of the things I like from Christianity because there's nobody and nothing stopping me from doing so.

After most of my kind got exterminated off of the face of the earth before their stories and anecdotes could be recorded, and have most of my culture erased to be replaced with good ole' American Livin' (oh what a feeling oh yeah ) I kind of needed filler to fill up the missing things in my own core system, so I took a few things I agreed with from Chris/Catho and integrated them into my own.

When other people dictated to me what I should believe in, I ignored it because that's what my culture tells me I can do. I don't need to follow other people's morals and beliefs if I don't want to or have to. I can take any avenue there is out there for myself, but also take responsibility for what happens when I do so, which makes it impossible for me to blame my actions on anything else I do since I know well enough that I caused such things to happen. I'll save the rest for later since it's off topic.

This is the main reason Fargle's "You are my enemy" statement bugs me and why I dislike the reasons why he has become an anti-theist.

You could just be a Antideist and get your mission accomplished that way too, where you don't allow morons to use God as an excuse to be an asshole to their kids or others.

But unless you UNDERSTAND any religion you are opposing then you really need to leave them alone.

Vorpy

I am aware about that. Not having religion makes it a lot harder for people to justify that though.

People don't need to justify being an asshole to you if they are your parents. They could just say "We are your parents, and we don't care if you want to be gay, we wont let you" or some other wonderful statement such as that.

Even then most homophobes have the wonderful "gays are desperate and unable to get laid with the opposite sex" argument, or the "incest gene" thing where your parents caused you to be gay by being incest/inbred. Hell, even without religion most manliness based arguments outright mock gay men because they dislike having sex with women, which is "TOTALLY NOT MANLY". People will still make fun of gay people, calling them dykes and faggots just because that insult has earned it's term as offensive (Unlike honkey and cracker.)

America's society has accepted lesbianism as a sexuality as long as the lesbians aren't ugly, so I have no problem with how things are right now. Go me.

CaptainFargle

@Vorpy: No, Antideism is not sufficient. I oppose ALL religion because it's ALL unproveable philosophical posturing. 

ninjaclown

You proved all religion is false? Show me.

GLORIOUSLeader

He's just going to go into unprovable = false again, which is incorrect. 

I'll explain my religious denomination if anybody is interested. 

CaptainFargle

@ninjaclown: Do you have solid evidence that any religion is true? If not, my point stands. 

@GloriousLeader: Yes, I am going to get into this again. If you claim that your God destroyed the entire world in a gigantic goddamn flood, then you'd better have some fucking evidence to back such an outlandish claim up. 

Vorpy

No, Antideism is not sufficient. I oppose ALL religion because it's ALL unproveable philosophical posturing.

Super-Massive Generalization.

ClockworkUniverse

^^I consider myself a Christian but don't believe in the flood. I believe that at most, there was probably a pretty big flood and some people found a boat, put some sheep on it and thought the whole world was flooded.

GLORIOUSLeader

Then let me explain my religious denomination to you, Fargle.

I am a Jewish deist. I do not believe in creationism. The only parts of the Old Testament I believe to be true (as in, they actually happened) are the parts in which God indirectly supports or gives advice to His followers. So perhaps Moses merely hallucinated the fact that God spoke to him through a burning bush. Most of the other stuff (Adam & Eve, Red Sea parting, fall of Jericho, etc.) is embellishment or metaphor. As such, not everything God says to do should be done; rather, the Old Testament acts as a basic moral guideline by which to live one's life with a bunch of useless BS tacked on to it. And unlike many other Jews, I also follow the New Testament, though I don't think Jesus is the son of God. 

ninjaclown

My inability to prove any religion is true =/= all religion is false. It's not one or the other, that's a fallacy.

snowbull

@Vorpy: Wait, so there's a religion that is proveable?

Vorpy

This thread took a sharp turn at stupid. Holy fuck.

CaptainFargle

@ninjaclown: Precisely why I said it's all unproveable philosophical posturing. Until you can prove it's not true, it's not necessarily false either but it's still not true. As such until you have evidence to prove it's true no one has any legitimate reason to believe such is the case. 

I can however disprove specific religions if you want though. Scientology is the easiest. Christianity isn't much harder. 

snowbull

I really don't think there was any other way for it to go. These things bring out the stupid in people.

Man, I can't wait to regret everything I've said in here.

ClockworkUniverse

you have no right to demand anyone else believe it.

Not demanding the complete annihilation of the belief system =/= demanding anyone else believe it.

Vorpy

Do you have solid evidence that any religion is true? Do you have solid evidence that any God is real? If not, my point stands.

I'm fixing this sentence because you purposely made another trap-statement that has absolutely no real answer since as long as you say religion is false, we aren't allowed to prove it true, and you can't prove something true if it can't be false. Hell, people believing in a set of morals is all they need to prove it true, unless you are talking about fake/false religions like Hanabarbarism or Touhouism or Contrarity Christianity.

I don't need to prove God is real to you or anyone else because I think he's real. Woop Woop. I don't even care if you are going to measure your dick and stroke your ego, or add another check to your amount of "Religionz DESTROYED" tally after me telling you that, go right ahead.

Still isn't going to make me lose faith in my system of beliefs. Even if YOU prove God to be false, your parents are still going to be homophobic assholes. I am still going to not steal from people or kill them, and then there are going to be less people who do nice things for me because it would gain them heaven points on the Christianity Game Server (which does not exist along with God).

CaptainFargle

@Vorpy: I did not make a trap statement. I said exactly what I meant. Not just God, but Religion. You want to prove your Religion and the beliefs about philosophy/sprituality/the afterlife/whatever are correct? Then I expect you to have evidence to back up your point. I expect anyone who argues any point to have evidence to back them up, otherwise I disregard their argument as worthless. 

GLORIOUSLeader

Also, I don't know what side of the argument this comic supports, but it's relevant:

Vorpy

I expect anyone who argues any point to have evidence to back them up, otherwise I disregard their argument as worthless.

I shall bring up "as long as you
say religion is false, we aren't allowed to prove it true" again, considering I told you that it's based on belief, something that can't be proven, and that I told you that way before you even mentioned this at all.

Why the fuck are you still in this thread when that was all you needed to be aware of? I even told you, plenty of times, that before you even posted that I am well aware that I will never be able to prove that God exists.The only other reason you would even waste your time here, even when you got your fucking answer with one of the first responses, is because you have asshole blood brewing in your veins and you feel like shitting up this conversation some more with more "I hate all religion and it must be erased" attitude.

But here, let me rephrase it again because apparently it didn't work and I feel stupid enough to enable this bullshit some more.

I believe that a God exists. God can't be proven to exist. When everyone searches the world and finds out that this creator never existed at all, then I shrug and move on with my life. I am not Christian, so the whole "explain the flood/rapture/ark/ammendments/parting of the red sea" shit won't work on me because that has nothing to do with me. Rather than arguing with an opponent that's not there perhaps you should get to know my system a bit better?

Also, lets quote these.

Deluded and power-hungry? Quite possibly. Using God as an excuse to do anything? Very likely. 

You don't even fucking know me, Fargle. You are just assuming things about me just because I inherited a few nice lines from the Bible and integrated them into my moral system.

God doesn't tell me to do shit, therefore, I can't use him as an excuse for ANYTHING. I am aware of this.

I am not deluded and power-hungry in the fashion you are referencing, because I don't use religion or God as a method of manipulation and it does not drive me to spread my message to everyone else in the world or to declare all other belief systems as wrong. 

CaptainFargle

@GloriousLeader: There's also the amusing fact that Omnipotence and Omniscience are mutually exclusive concepts. 

@Vorpy: It sounds like what you've got going there isn't a religion and just a personal moral code. Tell me, does this belief system of yours actually entail anything specific about Deities/The Afterlife/Spirituality etc?

GLORIOUSLeader

Omniscience is the ability to know everything. Omnipotence is the ability to do anything. I fail to see how they're mutually exclusive.

Also, Vorpy's religion is a religion. Stop moving the goalposts just to avoid being wrong.

ninjaclown

Did it occur to you that, maybe, just maybe, some people have a
spiritual need they have to fill in their lives, and, this may sound
crazy, but it's what keeps them happy? Like my black neighbours who
believe in God and are one of the most genuinely nice people I've met on
this planet, and not misinformed bigots who desire power.

CaptainFargle

@GloriousLeader: I'm not moving the goal posts. Vorpy is being deliberately nebulous to the point that I'm questioning that she even believes anything at all. 

As for the Omniscience and Omnipotence thing, Omniscience means you know everything you will ever do before you do it. So how can you ever change your mind about something if you already know everything you will ever do before you do it? If you can't change your mind you are not Omnipotent because there is something you cannot do. 

@ninjaclown: I don't support being happy on false pretences. 

Vorpy

And with that I grow sick of this fucking thread. I quit.

You win Fargle, go stroke your dick some more and do a victory jerk off on me for winning this unwinnable argument. I should have known better than to ARGUE WITH THE WONDERFUL UNDENIABLE FACTS OF SCIENCE when all I was bringing to the table was a disgustingly flawed unfinished belief system born from a society of Natives that were killed off anyway, right?

After all the colonists were able to take over america and wipe their ass with us, so obviously there was no way a silly belief system like that could compare to the DEAD COLD HANDS OF SCIENCE or the OPPRESIVE ANTI-GAY WORD OF GOD, who make sure fallacious bullshit thoughts shall never be practiced and heathenistic ways to survive.

But whatever, they're all dead now so that's one less religion to take care of, right? Hell after the last of the elders die off everyone will be whatever anyone tells us to be so what the fuck ever, lets be a pseudoanti-theistic christocathobuddhist daion from now on!

I just couldn't help it because I am a fucking retard, you know? I am filth on the world that aims to cause as much tyranny and unfairness as possible, and it doesn't matter what the fuck I say because the entireity of Christianity is wrong and since I took a few slivers of it into my own set of morals to decide what not to do and how to deal with my own problems, this makes me a pseudopuritan piece of shit.

What better way to celebrate this than to exercise my pathetic imagination and pretend nice things can exist? No, I know they don't exist, but I wish they did though, and that is why I believe, which is why I have faith. This can't be scientifically proven though so all of my friends, the ones who died in car accidents, who got killed by their parents or died from AIDs aren't going anywhere after they die, they'll just be rotting in the fucking ground, dead. It's comforting to know all I will know is the blackness of death, for I HAVE NO SOUL since I can't prove it exists.

The world feels much emptier now. Sucks to be me.

MadassAlex

Fargle gets burnt by asshole religious people.

Fargle crusades against all religion.

Solution: Stop watching shounens.

GLORIOUSLeader

@ninjaclown: I don't support being happy on false pretences.

I'm going to get in trouble for saying this, but I don't care. My life has taught me a certain different opinion as to that line of thinking, so I will say this:

Fuck you.

Khwarizmi

@ entire thread from post #6:

GLORIOUSLeader

I just noticed that his shirt says 69.