Religious apologists and antitheists insulting one another

Khwarizmi

I see two very intelligent, highly philosophical and well-educated groups of people accusing one another of ignorance and naïvité on a regular basis.  What gives?

Crimson

That's simple. They hate the other's opinion, and they let that leak into their actions.

It happens more than you think.

Beholderess

It happens between most opposing groups, unfortunately. Humans are prone to "them with us" mentality.

Not to mention that, more often than not, if such a heated discussion of religious issue took place at all, it was because the difference ceased to be purely philosophical and has spilled into actions, somehow.

This one would say that in her opinion, religious people are more guilty of carrying their ideas into actions against opposition, but probably shouldn't, for this one is not unbiased.

Khwarizmi

I'm talking more about referring to entire mindsets and ideologies as ignorant or naïve, in spite of the evidence to the contrary (that is, the apparent intelligence of those holding them).

Beholderess

Well, one does not contradict the other. Otherwise very intelligent people can hold naive ideas.

But then again,the same goes for most philosophical/ideological debates. It is quite usual for supporters of various political movements to consider each other hopelessly naive, idealistic, or prone to wistful thinking.

CaptainFargle

Bobby, you know why Antitheists insult Religious Apologists? 

Because Religious Apologists are saying that believing in Santa as an adult is a good thing. 

Vorpy

Because Religious Apologists are saying that believing in Santa as an adult is a good thing.

Since when? Perhaps your victims of prey that you love swooping down on in an attempt to backlash against your parent's insane beliefs are, but I know a few of them that are not.

CaptainFargle

So you're saying you know Religious Apologists who think Religion is bad? Isn't that something of a contradiction in terms?

Vorpy

So you're saying you know Religious Apologists who think Religion is bad? Isn't that something of a contradiction in terms?

No it's not. Knowing the flaws of your own belief system is not bad, because it helps you understand what to do with it, and what to not do with it.

CaptainFargle

That's the point though. Once you know the flaws in Religion and admit it's bad, you're on our side. You can't think that Religion is bad thing without also being Antitheist. Why?

Because it's the definition of Antitheism. 

Vorpy

That's the point though. Once you know the flaws in Religion and admit it's bad, you're on our side. You can't think that Religion is bad thing without also being Antitheist. Why?

Because it's the definition of Antitheism.

It's very hard to take you seriously anymore. This whole "side" thing is complete bullshit, and I am not on your "team". Hopefully I don't have to remind you about this again, and hopefully you'll keep your agenda to yourself. I am not sure what you even are trying to do with these responses, so I will ignore them since I know a one-sided trap statement when I see one.

Aside from that, most people believe in things because they like the fact that it might exist. Otherwise, why would anyone want to believe in Santa, aliens, goatman, cryptids, Elderbommies, bogeys, ghosts, supernatural parasites, Gods/Deities/Antiments/Espers/Aeons/whateverelse, angels, demons, spirits of nature, apocalyptikin and other beings of the end of the world, and/or other life in the universe that is mysterious? Other than liking the fact that it might exist, there is none, and there's no problem with that. It's like believing that we will get floating cars.

People also believe in things because it's fun. People like to have fun. People like to make hypothesis(s) on things that don't exist yet or don't exist at all. People do the same thing when they daydream about awesome mods for games, or magic powers in real life or super awesome machines they would invent. Beleiving in God(s) is one of those fun things to do.

Then there are the people who probably don't like, which exist, just like the people I enjoy being around and see on a daily basis. I'll call them Dumb. Dumb people need religion to keep them from killing everybody. The fear of a mysterious realm of eternal misery and torment is the only thing keeping everybody from not fearing any actions they do. There also comes the fact that everybody is so diverse and this doesn't work all of the time, but it's also an easy method of controlling people and manipulating their actions based on a "moral" scale.

Not every single person who believes in a God is equal to the insanity that is the WBC or the Puritans. Not all of them are causing problems, trying to erase the people they hate or trying to oppose the progress of the entire world just because their church or their books tell them to.

Let me confirm this a bit more.

I don't give a fuck that these people oppose abortion, some civil rights, the progress of science or create socially skewed stereotypes that distort the media.

If they fear death enough to avoid trying to murder me because they don't want to go to hell, or they devote their lives to helping people out and doing virtuous activities because they want to get closer to God, so fucking be it. We need more nice people who don't care about the whole "they are not you, and there is no reason to go out of your way to help others unless it benefits you in some way" attitude that most people who were indifferent and against the religious perpetrate.

Now please, continue with your day and pay me no mind if I am wrong or you don't agree with me.

CaptainFargle

Meanwhile the rest of us will be over here trying to pull humanity out of the fucking Dark Ages. 

MillerCross

Meanwhile the rest of us will be over here trying to pull humanity out of the fucking Dark Ages. 

whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa...

Who says religion means Dark Ages?

Also, I don't see how knowing that your belief system and it needs some improvement means "IT'S FUCKING WRONG AND IT SHOULD BE THROWN OVERBOARD"

GLORIOUSLeader

Because as you know, Juan, religion had absolutely no role in the preservation of ancient classical knowledge, and the Dark Ages showed no signs of advancement whatsoever. 

Hatter

Fargle, do you even KNOW what the Dark Ages were? They were the period in European history where there was relatively little written history, few large architectural projects and limited literacy following the fall of Rome. 

Anyone who claims we're sliding into a similar situation - despite the early Medieval period's many achievements - because of ardent religious belief is either wildly overstating the case or being a silly ass.

CaptainFargle

I said once you realise the flaws you have no choice to discard it because the flaw is, and this applies to every organised religion I have ever come across, that it's total bollocks. 

Seriously. I have not yet found ONE religion that's even remotely plausible or has even the slightest shred of actual evidence to back it up. 

EDIT: I'm not seriously comparing it to the Dark Ages. I was using Hyperbolic Sarcasm to indicate just how little I think of what religion brings to the world. Do you want me to use sarcasm tags for the rest of thread for clarity's sake? 

LouieW

I feel like theists and atheists kind of have to get along if we want a nicer, gentler world. I think it is pretty tough for people to cooperate when they believe that another group is irredeemable or what have you. Ultimately, I believe that atheists and theists need to have at least a decent relationship so they actually make the effort to understand each other. I understand why that may be really difficult or even seem ridiculous given the beliefs of both groups, but I believe it necessary for the sake of society as a whole.

I think that most of the time, prejudice comes from ignorance, so if atheists and theists refuse to recognize the other side, I believe that they will remain unaware of that perspective and thus probably build up some prejudice too.

Thus, I greatly dislike antitheism since I believe it hurts unity and causes unnecessary conflicts.

GLORIOUSLeader

Seriously. I have not yet found ONE religion that's even remotely plausible or has even the slightest shred of actual evidence to back it up.

Scientology.

CaptainFargle

@GloriousLeader: LOL. NO.

@Louie: Unity is not worth the damage that religion inflicts upon society. 

GLORIOUSLeader

What about Buddhism? 

Radd

@OP

Because those are both very stupid beliefs.

CaptainFargle

@GloriousLeader: If you have solid evidence for what Buddhism claims I'd very much like to see it. As is, I've found nothing. 

snowbull

Yes, I'd rather have the stupid semi-contradictory middleground.

Chagen

"Unity is not worth the damage that religion inflicts upon society."

"Unity is not worth the damage that the jew inflicts upon society."

"Unity is not worth the damage that the black race inflicts upon society."

"Unity is not worth the damage that all those who are not the Herrenvolk inflict upon society."

See what I did there?

Hatter

It doesn't matter whether or not something exists. If it inspires someone to do good deeds, then it's a valid and good thing.

GLORIOUSLeader

Does Buddhism claim that an almighty God wishes to rule over all of humanity? It only says that doing good things will give you "enlightenment," which, considering what many people believe said enlightenment to be, is valid enough. 

MillerCross

@Louie: I'm sorry, but i gotta disagree. Both sides are at fault there, not just antitheism. Both because most religious people dismiss what atheist and antitheists have to say and atheist dismiss what religious people have to say. Even when the subject is not about religion.

Now, I'm agnostic myself and I can't tell you which side is right or wrong, because to me they both can be right or wrong. God's existence is lacking in proof, but so is his lack of existence. Now, both sides have credible sound arguments and it's not unreasonable to believe and go along with one, as long as it works out for you. Because that's what religion is about, at the end of the day. It's just a philosophy with customs and cultural impact beyond simple written word and school teachings. As well as a way to lead a life. If you believe and it leads to a good life, then do it. But otherwise, then don't believe. simple, really.

^Buddhism does have a metaphysical aspect beyond that which you just described.

CaptainFargle

@Chagen: Stop spouting bullshit strawmen. Race and religion are NOT the same thing. One is an inherent structure of your biology the other is a series of rules made up by imaginary entities that you either choose or are brainwashed into believing. 

@Juan-Carlos: That's the problem though. Religion does not have credible, sound arguments. Credible, sound arguments require having evidence to back them up, 

GLORIOUSLeader

Question: are you an athiest or antitheist? 

^^ AGNOSTIC COP-OUT. But really, I know diddly squat on Buddhism. 

Vivi

You really can't get a good reason for why religion should not be.

CaptainFargle

@Vivi: How about the fact that there's no proof of any God. That seems like a very damn good reason to me. 

@GloriousLeader: Antitheist. I actively oppose believing in any God that doesn't have concrete evidence backing up their existence.