Religious apologists and antitheists insulting one another

Chagen

How exactly do you explain the atheist USSR killing 70 Million people?

Vivi

Anal hurts more than you'll ever know, Juan. :<

CaptainFargle

@Chagen: Because those killings were not motivated by a lack of belief in God. 

ClockworkUniverse

Of course it's Religion's fault! Religion was the whole reason the fucking things were carried out! The same goes for all kinds of atrocities, including ones that are still ongoing. Like the stoning of women in Iran etc etc etc.

You're assuming that bad people won't find another reason to excuse their behavior in religion's absence.

GLORIOUSLeader

^ This. If religion did not exist, then people would find another reason to excuse their bad actions. 

CaptainFargle

You're assuming that bad people won't find another reason to excuse their behavior in religion's absence.

No I'm not. I have never said that. I'm well aware that people will still be dicks, but at least they wouldn't be dicks because of God anymore. Which would be an improvement. 

MillerCross

Except no. Many were killed because they believed in a God during the USSR rule.

anyway, nutjobs who believe they're following a relgion when they kill are barely an argument. They're insane, deluded and misinterpreting.

EDIT: Seriously? You've never met ANYONE? Do you live in the world's most atheist neighbourhood or what? Hell you could just come and meet my parents. 

I never said they weren't religious. I said that they managed to lead a full life. Huge difference.

^So instead of scream "IN THE NAME OF THE LORD" they scream "IN THE NAME OF WAFFLES" when they kill.  How is that an improvement.

Vorpy

Especially since arguing against them is considered offensive and intolerant.

Arguing against murder and violence is never offensive and intolerant to those who are sane.

CaptainFargle

@Juan_Carlos: That just sounds like they've deified waffles instead. What would be an improvement would be if they didn't shout in the name of anybody while murdering. 

It would still be a horrible, horrible thing obviously but at least it would be entirely secular. 

"Arguing against murder and violence is never offensive and intolerant to those who are sane."

It seems we've arrived at the same argument. 

@Funnyguts: Thank you. 

MillerCross

Arguing against murder and violence is never offensive and intolerant to those who are sane.

This.

It would still be a horrible, horrible thing obviously but at least it would be entirely secular. 

Yeah, but that's like saying "Hey, at least they didn't kill him with a sword. It was just a knife. That makes the murder a relatively nice guy" 

It's still a murder. It's still wrong as fuck.

CaptainFargle

@Juan_Carlos: Of course it's still wrong as fuck. It's just LESS wrong as fuck. 

MillerCross

Not in the slightest. Corrected.

^...how.

I mean, there's really not a way for murder to be less wrong.

snowbull

I think the biggest problem with religion is that it promotes irrationality and a lack of skpeticism. First you're believing improbable things written 2000 years ago by some dudes who only know how to shepherd sheep, next thing you know you're believing improbable things written by guys on the internet.

ClockworkUniverse

No I'm not. I have never said that. I'm well aware that people will still be dicks, but at least they wouldn't be dicks because of God anymore. Which would be an improvement.

Not in any concrete way. Seriously, the biggest possible difference is massive dicks versus misinformed massive dicks.

CaptainFargle

@Juan_Carlos: Of course there's a way for murder to be less wrong. Moral relativism applies to everything. It's would be FAR less wrong for someone to go out an murder Muammar Gadaffi so that he would stop oppressing Libya as it would be for someone to go and murder Lady Gaga for supporting Gay Rights. 

@Funnyguts: Case in point, my parents probably wouldn't have any issue with me being gay if it wasn't for the Bible getting in the fucking way. 

Vorpy

You want to know what my Anti-Theism is REALLY about? It's about making
sure trying to make sure that no-one else ever gets hurt the way I did.

How is being a dick to those who believe in God going to accomplish that? You are supposed to get to know them before doing that and make sure they are not cut from the same cloth as the pseudopuritan Godvomiting childhood killers.

Tell me Fargle, am I the same kind of person as the people who've hurt you? Am I using God as an excuse to do anything? Am I pseudopuritan filth? Am I deluded and power-hungry?

CaptainFargle

@Vorpy: Pseudopuritan filth? No. Deluded and power-hungry? Quite possibly. Using God as an excuse to do anything? Very likely. 

Vorpy

Am I your enemy then? Tell me. It would be delightful to know.

ninjaclown

Well I don't believe in God, so you can be sure I will never try to accumulate as much power as possible.

MillerCross

Using God as an excuse to do anything? Very likely. 

Just have to say here, that I've never seen Vorpy talk about God when she either talks about any anecdotes she brings up here or any actions she has done in  this place. In fact, I thought she was an atheist or agnostic until she said otherwise here and now.

/Opinion that has no impact whatsoever in this debate

CaptainFargle

@Vorpy: In the sense of wanting to kill you? No. In the sense that you're advocating a system of thought that I feel needs to be disposed of and eventually removed from humanity entirely? Yes. 

ClockworkUniverse

Case in point, my parents probably wouldn't have any issue with me being gay if it wasn't for the Bible getting in the fucking way.

Not necessarily. There have been plenty of anti-gay atheists. Take Ayn Rand for instant. An atheist who spent her entire life developing a philosophy under which homosexuality is 100% fine, yet she was anti-gay.

Using God as an excuse to do anything? Very likely.

Such people use anything as an excuse to do anything.

CaptainFargle

@INUH: And where did I claim that religion was the only source of homophobia? I just said that it seems to be the only source of it in my parents case. 

ClockworkUniverse

What I'm saying is that I feel that homophobia is a personal reaction which they use religion to justify.

And poorly, at that; all the bible really has to say about the matter is that anal is icky.

Vorpy

Case in point, my parents probably wouldn't have any issue with me being
gay if it wasn't for the Bible getting in the fucking way.

If religion didn't exist how would you make sure they wouldn't disagree with it because they think homosexuality is disgusting and creepy? Even when I convinced my parents to drop their distorted view of "sin", my dad still thought that two men having sex or marrying was creepy as fuck. My mother is nervous around my lesbian friends and other homosexual women due to the fact that they make her feel uncomfortable.

Hell, there are atheist/non-religious homophobes everywhere. You don't even have to look hard.

There's even some in this thread right now.

snowbull

The accusations, they sting, Vorpy

IanExMachina

Hmm, I think it would be hard to separate the reasons for homophobia in a primarily Christian country like america without proper qualitative research into it.

CaptainFargle

@Ian: I'm in the UK, just FYI. Northern Ireland to be more specific. 

@Vorpy: I am aware about that. Not having religion makes it a lot harder for people to justify that though. 

IanExMachina

@CaptainFargle

Ireland would work as well, as Ireland is religious too.

GLORIOUSLeader

^^^^^^ Hey, I got over that, alright? 

But really. The reason antitheists and religious types get into arguments so often is because one side acts like presumptuous dicks. I'm not saying which side.