People who deny anthropogenic factors affecting climate change.

ClockworkUniverse

And how much exactly has either of people present done to reduce their fossil fuel usage?

I'm...not really autonomous enough at the moment to do much. I don't like driving places, though, so I guess there's that.

All Nines

"I guess I shouldn't be surprised by Chagen being a horrifying example of everything wrong with humanity, but for some reason I am."

"If Chagen was the only one with that attitude, he'd be a harmless idiot,"

You could always just ignore him, Nyktos.

Wicked223

Obligatory xkcd link.

Nyktos

Yes, I could.

Beholderess

Cygan

Admirable

Nova

I'm not going to preach unless I practice what I preach.

RedEyedAbyss

"Stop talking shit about things you know FUCKING NOTHING ABOUT."

I was pretty sure they were attempting to reduce their environmental impact. What I was sceptical of was how effective those measures would be. Greater energy efficiency is a step in the right direction, but you mention biofuels, which are a sham. The energy it takes to produce them outweighs the lessened emissions compared to gasoline.

Chagen

Cygan: Just seems like a lot of inconvience to me.

Not to mention that one person is never going to make a difference. Why waste the time if your small contribution will never have a discernable benefit?

/depressing

RedEyedAbyss

Again, culture.

ClockworkUniverse

Not to mention that one person is never going to make a difference. Why waste the time if your small contribution will never have a discernable benefit?

By that logic, we shouldn't have police or firemen, since one policeman or fireman can't do much.

Nyktos

Nobody sets out saying, "The world would be so much better if Chagen would only start caring more about the environment." People set out saying, "The world would be so much better if people in general would only start caring more about the environment." Thus they try to convince as many people as possible to do so. You might happen to be one of them.

If you ignore the message, it doesn't really matter much. If everyone ignores the message, nothing is achieved.

IanExMachina

@Beholderess

I use public transport. Composting and growing own food as well as keeping chickens for eggs.

Everything in the house is unplugged when not on to avoid standby power.

If it is cold more jumpers are used instead of heating.

Recycling whatever can be collected.

Etc

I mostly have this from my parents who do these as well.

Nova

Every one person attempting to cut down on their environmental impact is one person who is not impacting as much a they would.

You may think you're one person thinking that, Chagen. But billions of people think like that.

Beholderess

To be honest, this one is kind of bothered by the disproportionate response one's unwillingness to put up with an inconvenience generated here. Of course trying to reduce emissions is very admirable, no doubt about that, but please, is it necessary to treat unwillingness to do so as a heinous crime? And do you judge other people as harshly?

Vivi

For some little kid that wants to be remembered in the future, you sure are doing a whole lot of nothing good to be remembered for.

Wicked223

There's also the fact that, for the majority of the population, reducing one's impact in the ways described just isn't feasible.

RedEyedAbyss

One of the reasons I would like to move to the city: public transportation is nowhere near as developed in towns.

ClockworkUniverse

@Beholderess:It just bothers me when people use "it doesn't matter if I do this as long as a bunch of other people do" as an excuse for stuff. It's the same mentality that leads to nasty things like the bystander effect.

One of the reasons I would like to move to the city. Public transportation is nowhere near as developed in towns.

Honestly, in my experience, America as a whole just doesn't have valid public transportation except in the two or three largest cities. (though I don't actually know if you live here.)

Beholderess

IanExMachina

Again, a very admirable thing to do

RedEyedAbyss

Eh, from first-hand experience, Edmonton, Alberta has an elaborate system. It's not just public transportation, though. Generally, if you're not living in the suburbs, places tend to be closer so you can just walk to wherever you want.

Beholderess

INUH

This I can agree with. And yet for some reason people who don't act due to bystander effect seem to face more sympathy here, even though their (un)action leads to actual people being harmed right now, instead of hypothetically at some point in the future

Nova

A million people emitting a bit less carbon is not going to help.

Yes, it will.

Alternately, do both.

Nova

No, but it will decrease the rate at which it is worsening.

ClockworkUniverse

Incidentally, I read about a possible solution involving the use of a gas that acts as an anti-greenhouse agent, which, if deployed in sufficient quantity, would remove all the effects of carbon emission with the exception of increased plant growth. But nobody was willing to fund research into it.

IanExMachina

^

Geohacking stuff is interesting., if quite extreme.

However it is wise to look at the pros and cons of each thing.

Was is some kind of sulphate aerosol? (Not 100% on the sulphate bit, feeling a mite tired. Will see If I can find some article on similar stuff.)

ClockworkUniverse

Could've been; I don't remember. It was ages ago that I read about it.

IanExMachina

Found a link in general looking at geoengineering/geohacking.

Also one looking at more methods including artificial trees, also mentions sulphate particles deployed in the atmosphere to cool the planet.

ClockworkUniverse

Looks interesting, but they won't let me view the whole thing >:-|

IanExMachina

Ah yeah, subscription required.

The artificial tree idea is just something that removes co2 from the air and stores it underground, the challenge is to do it cheaply and efficiently.

Relevant section about sulphates:

"Modelling has already shown that stratospheric clouds of sulphate particles could rapidly cool the planet. David Keith of the University of Calgary, Canada, has submitted a paper to Nature in which he outlines a proposal to release about a tonne of sulphate particles from a NASA plane at an altitude of 20 kilometres. The results would help researchers refine their models, and the number of particles released would be far short of the number required to produce a significant cooling effect."

Nyktos

Yeah, I remember reading about that stuff in Superfreakonomics. I think it's a great idea, if it can be made to work practically. Obviously one has to tread very carefully when doing something like that.