Original characters, fan fiction self-inserts, X-sonas.

Gelzo

This is something that's really painful to see.

DYRE

Original characters can be fun sometimes.  Not the fanfiction sort of original character though, the kind 2chan makes and then tries to trick people into thinking they're real characters that are going to be introduced soon.  Though, since that's not what you're talking about... I agree with you.  Fortunately, there's basically no reason to read fanfic (or... view random DeviantART galleries, in the case of fursonas and such) in the first place, so it's very easy to avoid.

Gelzo

It can actually be hard to avoid seeing instances of it on fan sites for a work.

"Hey guys! I need advice on my ponysona." "Herp derp, I'll just make my trollsona my avatar!"

Yeah, this is the kind of crap I have to see.

Chagen

OCs are awesome and I will fucking RAEG at anyone who doesn't like them.

What is so wrong with creating new characters? The canon characters don't live in a bubble (usually) and they would obviously know people outside of each other. And if they are going on a new adventure in a fanfic, they would obviously meet new allies and villians. 

Canon characters are no different than OCs. They were simply created by the creator, which doesn't make them any different. Death Of The Author applies in this case.

Simply reading about the main cast again is boring. It's much more interesting to add a new character and write about how they change the dynamic of the cast.

DYRE

^^ Ah, okay.  Yeah, I guess it would probably show up a lot if you're on sites for a specific fandom.  Usually I don't visit such sites, so perhaps that's why I don't see much of this.  Yeah, I can see this being annoying.

^ Not going to bother giving a proper reply to this.  But to summarize: no.  Or, lolpinions.

Chagen

And why not? I'd like to at least see your reasons why you disagree. 

Can you stop pulling the subjectivity card? I know they're my opinions, do I have to fucking clarify it at the end of every one of my posts? People are going to say their opinions as if they were fact.

Your first post in this thread was an opinion. Several opinions, mind you.

Gelzo

DYRE

To be honest, I barely read your post and so I assumed it was more vitriolic than it was (though the first line kind of was... but I guess it was just hyperbolic.  Hard to tell with you).  I guess I'm kind of being an asshole right now, so I'll stop.  For now.  I'll probably continue being an asshole once I'm done with this post.

Anyway, to give a proper reply...

The thing is, there is something different about canon character and OCs.  That is, one group is the group of characters we give a shit about, because we're fans of the series they're from, and the other group is the group that we don't, since we have no prior interest in them, due to the fact that they are not actually in the series we're fans of.

And it's for that reason that, while I agree it would make logical sense for the canon characters to meet new characters occasionally (depending on the nature of the fanfic), it doesn't necessarily make much sense from a fandom perspective.

Furthermore, original characters are heavily associated with the next on Gelzo's list of things he's complaining about in this thread: self-insert characters.  These are bad.  They're more or less a sign that either the author can't write new characters but is trying anyway, or that they're only writing for self-gratification, and neither is a very good thing to be a sign of...

And x-sona's are just generally annoying to see people talk about, since they are of no interest to anyone but the person creating them.

Gelzo

Thanks for summing up the things I was too apathetic to say.

Chagen

The thing is, there is something different about canon character and OCs.  That is, one group is the group of characters we give a shit about, because we're fans of the series they're from, and the other group is the group that we don't, since we have no prior interest in them, due to the fact that they are not actually in the series we're a fan of.

I see things differently--I like to see new characters come in and change things around. I love watching character interaction, so seeing more of that, and new situations evolve from the new characters is something I love. 

You'll notice this alot with me--I like anything that's good, no matter what it is. I like any song that's good no matter what genre it is; similarly, I like any character that's good, regardless of what they came from, where they came from, or who they came from.

DYRE

There's also the fact that most fanfiction is shit, and a lot of it is only enjoyable due to the association with something that isn't shit, which original characters do not have the benefit of.

But regardless, it's really mostly just that a lot of people are reading fanfic because they want to see more of the characters they already like.  If they wanted something original, they'd just go and watch/read/play/whatever something that isn't fanfiction.

Plus there's plenty of opportunity for character interaction, and having new situations without having to introduce new characters, so I don't see what those have to do with OCs.

Chagen

Well, of course the original characters must be present as well. 

And dude, Sturgeon's Law. 90% of everything is shit, it's the 10% remaining that's good.

DYRE

Well, arguably fanfic has a much higher bad-to-good ratio than non-fanfic.  But that's beside the point.  The point was if people are looking for fanfiction, they're more willing to tolerate bad writing when it involves things they already like.  But all of this is completely tangential to the main point because this all assumes a fan that even wants to read fanfiction in the first place, which I am not, and from Gelzo's post(s), it doesn't appear that he is either (or even if he is, he could very well be making the same complaint even if he weren't).  The main point of the thread was apparently that this stuff is annoying because Gelzo doesn't care about it and some fans won't shut up about it.

Chagen

Well, people not shutting about things is annoying, I agree.

DonZabu

Think of fanfiction as the modern-day extension of the story-telling methods we used before the invention of writing, where the stories and characters would be passed on from one person to another by word of mouth, over many generations. Each storyteller tells a slightly different version of that story, with some changes being more overt than others, and in that sense, it's kept alive.

Bob

[Comment deleted]
[Reason: Shitpost]

MoeDantes

I think the OC hate goes overboard. If I may recycle one of Vorpy's examples: what if the characters are going to a new place, where obviously they'll meet new people? If you say this is automatically bad, then you limit "good" fanfics to just being ones where the cast never does anything new or different or never meets anyone who wasn't in the show, and that drastically limits what you can do with fanfic. The whole point of fanfic is doing things canon can't, so putting limits on it is stupid.

Self-inserts on the other hand should never be used in a serious fic, unless you're willing to integrate them and treat them realistically instead of making them the be-all-end-all.

JHM

^ Seconded.

┻━┻ ︵ ヽ(`Д´）╯︵ ┻━┻

I don't mind OCs as long as they aren't overpowered, and as long as they aren't very important.

I hate certain kinds of character derailment far more.

Vorpy

Can you stop pulling the subjectivity card? I know they're my opinions,
do I have to fucking clarify it at the end of every one of my posts?
People are going to say their opinions as if they were fact.

The subjectivity card is Law of God. You cannot make your opinion have more meaning than others unless you are solipsistic.

Unfortunately for you, you are not. I am though, so my opinions are law.

Vivi

Damn Chagen, you gonna let Vorpy bitch you like that?

Oh wait.

Chagen

I'll be Vorpy's little bitch~

Katrika

What about things like OCs you make for an rp set in a canon setting without any interaction with canon characters? I get how obnoxious it is to write something with an OC (and often a poorly done one, to boot) basically hijacking the plot and characters, but surely there are some exceptions. Was is Surgeon's Law that stated that the 10% is worth dying for? Because I think it applies.

...self inserts, on the other hand, are no fun at all. Most of the fun from rp comes from trying to decide how someone that's NOT you would react to the situation, at least for me.

Vivi

-sees Katrika's name-

@_@

Katrika

What?

I've been lurking here the past few days.

I-I'm allowed. 0///0

TheConductor

First lolChagenrage excuse me while I don't give a shit.

Second; Unless the original character is a minor plot device or fills some niche that the current cast don't, then what's the point? All it does is shoehorn the characters that we actually GIVE a shit about out of the story.

My only exception to this is when it is a story merely set in the same universe as an existing piece of media. Like maybe a story about a new member of the Belmont clan. A story about a new hero trying to join the JLA? In these cases, OCs make sense and are preferable to Canon Characters. 

Chagen

"First lolChagenrage excuse me while I don't give a shit"

What a breathtaking display of maturity. Truly I should respect your opinion.

"Second; Unless the original character is a minor plot device or fills some niche that the current cast don't, then what's the point? All it does is shoehorn the characters that we actually GIVE a shit about out of the story."

Because not everyone cares about you?

Because some people actually want something original?

Because some people aren't annoying fundamentalists when it comes to fandom and want to have fun instead of sitting around and demanding that others change to suit their boring tastes?

Some of us OC creators put a lot of work into our characters, you know. To disprage us for no sensible reason is getting aggravating.

Stop thinking in absolutes. The world is not objective.

Vorpy

OCs aren't bad when shitty writers aren't involved. Filling roles that aren't there is nice, as is providing new characters.

It also depends on the story. More saiyans in DBZ fics is not so bad, more ponies in MLP is not bad. It's just when there is no need to add another person to the group but they are pushed in there to

I gave up on this sentence because I can't think of a clever enough lie to link to it.

GLORIOUSLeader

How about "Fanfiction is inherently good"? 

Vorpy

Nah, I was talking about a subjective reason to add why OCs can make a story better when introduced.

Like.....Johnny Test or Yugioh.

TheConductor

"Because not everyone cares about you?" 

And what has that to do with ANYTHING?

"Because some people actually want something original?"

If they wanted that they wouldn't be reading fanfiction. People read fanfiction because they want to see the continued adventures of the characters they are interested in.

"demanding that others change to suit their boring tastes?"

Did I ONCE suggest people have to agree with me? No, I did not. 

"To disprage us for no sensible reason is getting aggravating."

Could you please TRY and get over your persecution complex for a little while? And I am guessing 'sensible' here means "agree with me".

Please stop being such a butthurt little pissant Chagen, it is not endearing.