Arguing with birthers

glennmagusharvey

Demonstrates very quickly the futility of using facts alone to convince people.

DonZabu

Do those still exist?

glennmagusharvey

Birthers?  You're kidding, right?  Of course they're still around!  They even have one of their kind running for president!  if not more than one!

GLORIOUSLeader

Arguing with birthers

why

Turtle

Another day, another assertion that birthers are wrong that strangely lacks proof that they're wrong.

Chagen

Because we can't be birthers and normal, amirite?

DonZabu

Do NOT tell me that we have actual birthers on this freaking forum!

LouieW

While I am not quite sure why people would be "birthers" to begin with, I can agree with the idea that arguing with "birthers" does not do much good (at least arguing with them about "birther" stuff).

That being said, I have convinced someone who was questioning whether President Obama was born in the U.S. that he was in fact born there after sending that person a link to snopes.com. Thus, I feel like it is possible to change peoples' minds on that subject. I think these links are even more convincing than the Snopes piece though.

As for the question of why President Obama has not published his "long form" birth certificate, from what I can tell here, Hawaii law does not really allow that kind of public disclosure. I could be wrong though.

Frankly, I think the charge that the president was not born in the U.S. is a pretty silly and unfounded one. I feel like there are many more legitimate reasons to criticize the Obama Administration that are not conspiracies and actually have to do with policy stuff.

 

TheMightyAnonym

Doubt nothing.

Ponicalica

Personally, even if Obama weren't born in the United States, that's a stupid thing to argue about.  The «born in the United States» requirement is the stupidest sentence in the Constitution(ignoring the stuff allowing slavery that no longer applies).

Turtle

So... it's okay to just ignore the Constitution because you don't agree with it?

I think I'm going to go murder a few people because laws against murder are stupid.

DonZabu

Turtle, I can smell your evasive persecution complex bullshit a mile away. It's a common way of speaking among all of your type. The birther thing is just your way of expressing some other contempt for Obama/what he represents that you have.

Turtle

"Your type"?  Really?

Stormtroper

^^^ And the authorities will arrest and imprison you for it. Conveniently, they don't have to "morally justify" it.

Turtle

Um, yeah, they do.

glennmagusharvey

> Another day, another assertion that birthers are wrong that strangely lacks proof that they're wrong.

As Louie already pointed out, the proof is already there.  Birthers not looking at or acknowledging the proof does not count as the proof not existing; it counts as birthers behaving like ostriches whose heads are buried in the sand.

> So... it's okay to just ignore the Constitution because you don't agree with it?

Wait, when was it ignored?

Also, don't forget that Obama's mom was from Kansas.  If that isn't American I don't know what is.

Tnu1138

What's a birther?

GuyInWhite

Hey, Turtle, here's the proof you requested.

glennmagusharvey

@Tnu1138: Someone who doesn't believe that Obama is a natural-born citizen and is thus ineligible to serve as President of the United States.

@GuyInWhite: Just the proof is enough. :P

DonZabu

>"Your type"? Really?

Birthers, Holocaust deniers, and other such people all have similar ways of talking: defensiveness, a seeming inability to acknowledge any evidence presented, building most of their arguments on a perception that their opponents are unfairly persecuting them, dancing around the issue by claiming that their opponents are dancing around the issue, etc.

But that's for the more passive, ridiculous conspiracy theories. Conspiracy theories like 9/11, JFK, and the Illuminati, on the other hand, all speak with extreme hysteria, using capslock unironically, bandying about wild hyperbole and peppering their arguments with revelatory vocabulary like "Wake up!" and "Open your eyes!".

GLORIOUSLeader

Why Obama not being born in the U.S. (he was, BTW) is not needed, what with his mother being a naturalized citizen, is one of the reasons I identify myself as liberal. 

(Try and follow that sentence.) 

Turtle

^x4

I wuv yew too.

Good Lord, you guys are seriously making me reconsider my stance on the removal of IJBM from TV Tropes, and I assure you, I've never done that before.

GuyInWhite

What, because we proved that you're wrong?

Tnu1138

Listen if they can find wsufficent proof on the matter then good but if they're just clinging to some strange belief forget it. I don't care for Obama's Pollitics but that's as far as i'm willing to go.

Turtle

^^

No, because of the needless personal attacks.

Nyktos

Nice job not actually addressing anything anyone said.

DonZabu

^^ Thus, we are presented with:

-a seeming inability to acknowledge any evidence presented

-building most of their arguments on a perception that their opponents are unfairly persecuting them

Be sure to take notes, class. Recognizing these patterns is important.

glennmagusharvey

I see GIW edited his post. :P

Turtle

-Who ever said I didn't acknowledge the evidence presented?  I was genuinely ignorant of any birth certificate's being presented before tonight.
-My arguments are built on no such thing.  My ceasing to argue, however, is built on my not really having any interest in being insulted.

Nyktos

Who ever said I didn't acknowledge the evidence presented?  I was
genuinely ignorant of any birth certificate's being presented before
tonight.

Okay, just a tip for future reference. Avoid saying things like this:

That said, you would think if Obama had evidence of being born in the US, he would just freaking present it already. 
But every time the issue is brought up people just shout back "don't be
ridiculous you're just a conspiracy theorist who doesn't know
anything."   So... um... prove them wrong once and for all instead of
giving them more fuel.

Unless you've bothered to check your facts first. It tends to make you look like a moron.

All Nines

"Who ever said I didn't acknowledge the evidence presented?"

Well, there is the fact that, after evidence was presented, you neglected to respond to it immediately, in favor of responding to other comments, when admitting that you were wrong about something might have eased the issue a bit and stopped some of the negative responses, rather than dragging it out and making yourself look worse.

"I was genuinely ignorant of any birth certificate's being presented before tonight."

That's what Google-fu is for. And checking the legitimacy of any news that has come up relating to your political stance is just a little important when taking said stance.