Animu/Mango General

glennmagusharvey · 2020-07-25 16:09:07

Yes, but even more so the character Yona herself.

glennmagusharvey · 2020-07-31 02:57:07

I just now found out that Yona of the Dawn and Cross Ange coincided in when they were aired.

glennmagusharvey · 2020-07-31 03:36:16

And it turns out that Akiko Shikata, who worked on Cross Ange's soundtrack and amazingly memorable insert songs, also worked on the second ending theme for Yona of the Dawn, which is probably why I felt amazing El Ragna vibes from that song.

Two stories, about two princesses, both thrust into tragedy at their sixteenth birthdays, when everything they knew of life was turned upside-down on them. Both are amazing stories.

Though I only wish more of Yona's story was adapted. It clearly isn't anywhere near over.

glennmagusharvey · 2020-07-31 04:51:47

Meanwhile, narratively, they obviously differ in setting and pacing, but perhaps most important to their overall premise, is where they take things. Yona focuses more on its character interactions (sometimes at the expense of plot or atmosphere) and also features more moral ambiguity, while Cross Ange is more action-driven and emotionally gratifying.

(While the two stories seem to differ in that Yona looks more wholesome, that's arguably only true if you ignore certain visual details, plus the squeeing fangirls.)

glennmagusharvey · 2020-07-31 07:06:57

It's curious that they published three episodes separately, but they're basically the final party member's character backstory.

Except the first episode of the three; that one is more onsen comedy, with another character's backstory.

Edit: Oh, I see. They're actually published separately. Anime-Planet lists them separately, which makes more sense.
https://www.anime-planet.com/anime/yona-of-the-dawn-ova
https://www.anime-planet.com/anime/yona-of-the-dawn-zeno-arc

fourteenwings · 2020-08-01 05:32:52

Kemono Friends: Youkoso Japari Park is up to episode 32 of it's second season.

I wonder if that'll just go on forever.

It's curious that they published three episodes separately

Usually the sign of an OVA.

that's arguably only true if you ignore certain visual details

That's a really troubling way to bring together "constant exploitative content meant to titillate otaku viewers" and "shoujo anime".

Yona probably doesn't just look more wholesome, it probably is. Even the most "racy" shoujo anime I can think of (Devil's Line, and that's josei anyways) doesn't approach what I saw in Cross Ange's PVs.

There is a scene in the josei anime Paradise Kiss where two protagonists actually sleep together, and even that I doubt could manage to approach the objectionable nature of Cross Ange.

Visual language is extremely important. It's a well-developed skill to be able to ignore certain types of it, but that doesn't mean you then pretend it's not there.

glennmagusharvey · 2020-08-01 06:40:23

At first I wanted to say that Yona is has a more wholesome presentation or is more wholesome of a story, but then I realized that I would have to figure out where to draw the line of establishing what makes something wholesome or not. I could claim that it's visual fanservice that's the difference, and Cross Ange makes a lot more use of that, but is that actually the proper line to draw, I'm not sure. The line by which I'd call Yona more wholesome is a line someone else drew, as it's me drawing upon an idea informed by how I know other people feel about various types of content.

I know it can definitely and easily be argued that Cross Ange's content is "meant to titillate otaku viewers", though this goes into a curious question of "is the content exploitative (and thus morally objectionable) if it's relevantly justified in the story?" -- because I think it substantially is relevantly justified in Cross Ange, and I dare say, more so than in a number of other series that I've seen which weren't even as chock full of this sort of sexual content as Cross Ange is. (Though even then, there are still some such elements in Cross Ange that seemed gratuitous and unnecessary. But then again, "gratuitous and unnecessary" could be said of a lot of things...)

Now, of course, one could argue "they made Cross Ange like this in the first place, to titillate otaku viewers", which I'm inclined to agree with, but I feel that I need not interpret the story itself through this metatextual lens, if the narrative experience made me feel otherwise about it.

I still want to say Yona is a more wholesome story, because it just seems obvious to do so, especially if I'm describing this comparison to other people, but I don't think that using this term really represents what I feel about it, as much as it represents an informed sense of how I expect others to feel about it. Also I feel it overemphasizes the role of visual sexual fanservice while underemphasizing other forms of appeal. So the term feels superficial, like it's just an artifact of the presentation, rather than really getting to a core "sense" of the narrative experiences.

fourteenwings · 2020-08-01 12:44:52

but is that actually the proper line to draw, I'm not sure

Luckily, I made lots of value judgements in my post, so it stands despite your frankly mealy mouthed approach to equivalency.

is the content exploitative (and thus morally objectionable)

Things that aren't exploitative are morally objectionable all the time.

it substantially is relevantly justified in Cross Ange

Everybody knows that the scenes in Cross Ange are built for the most titillation, not the other way round. It doesn't even matter if they spend a whole episode attempting to justify a 2 minute scene. You can call it legitimate art if the production values and effort is high enough, but I still won't buy that it's suddenly okay to pretend such scenes are anything but titillation.

I have a modicum of respect for people who at least just admit they're reasoning for watching something objectionable.

I have watched shows myself where the content went too far. For example, ATX's airing of Machine-doll gives the teenage robot doll Yaya detailed chest anatomy, and just last week Lapis Re:LiGHTs introduced a character who carries around her teenage sister's underwear.

I won't try to justify my moral failings in continuing to watch those shows by saying "Well I felt differently" or something. I just accept my failure in behaving responsibly and never attempt to make it sound better than it is.

I feel that I need not interpret the story itself through this metatextual lens

You can't keep pretending Cross Ange is something it's not.

It's okay that Cross Ange is as it is, but all this mealy-mouthed justification just makes it sound like you're embarrassed by it as a whole product so you try to convince other people it somehow doesn't contain all the objectionable content it obviously does.

glennmagusharvey · 2020-08-01 15:24:09

fourteenwings wrote: »

Luckily, I made lots of value judgements in my post, so it stands despite your frankly mealy mouthed approach to equivalency.

And I think your value judgements are missing the point. This isn't a "legitimate art" question, nor is it about "pretending" some judgement contrary to its metatextual intent. Its metatextual intent is arguably pretty clear, but that doesn't mean that one can't find some other meaning in the story and appreciate it for something other than that metatextual intent.

The audience is not chained to the metatextual intent.

fourteenwings wrote: »

I have a modicum of respect for people who at least just admit they're reasoning for watching something objectionable. ... I won't try to justify my moral failings in continuing to watch those shows by saying "Well I felt differently" or something. I just accept my failure in behaving responsibly and never attempt to make it sound better than it is.

First, I don't see how it is a "moral failing" to find meaning in or otherwise appreciate something. You could argue that it's a "moral failing" to enjoy something specifically for its exploitative titillation elements, and I might agree with that, but that doesn't preclude finding another aspect of it to appreciate. It's simple enough to understand that works of art aren't solely represented by moral judgements on their content, and moral objections to content can coexist with other elements.

fourteenwings wrote: »

It's okay that Cross Ange is as it is, but all this mealy-mouthed justification just makes it sound like you're embarrassed by it as a whole product so you try to convince other people it somehow doesn't contain all the objectionable content it obviously does.

And you're thinking that I'm "embarrassed" about liking this, whereas I'm not. I'm quite aware that many people find its content objectionable, but I mention it anyway where I find it relevant, because I've found meaning in this story beyond its objectionable/sexual content.

Anyhow, this all kinda misses what I was meant with the statement that spawned this discussion. My point was that if I draw the line on anything sexual, I end up putting Cross Ange on the same side as Yona. Your counter-point, meanwhile, is that visual sexual fanservice is where the line should be drawn; the distinction feels superficial to me, but I didn't intend to contest that point at this time. However, this is rather different from "pretend[ing] it's not there".

Naas_Human · 2020-08-01 15:35:48

The new anime is titled Yūki Yūna wa Yūsha de Aru Dai-Mankai no Shō

What a strange thing to find out on Digimon Day.

fourteenwings · 2020-08-01 15:37:50

I wonder if they'll also get a Shoutmon-esque shoulder accessory, Kamen Rider Saber style.

And I think your value judgements are missing the point.

And I think you're hiding the point in the closet whilst writing a dissertation on how it isn't the point at all.

This isn't an issue of fancy things, it's very simple, and you're pretending otherwise.

For example:

My point was that if I draw the line on anything sexual, I end up putting Cross Ange on the same side as Yona.

However, this is rather different from "pretend[ing] it's not there".

It's not, it's the same thing.

glennmagusharvey · 2020-08-01 16:05:00

fourteenwings wrote: »

And I think you're hiding the point in the closet whilst writing a dissertation on how it isn't the point at all.

And I think you're pinning someone else's point on me, by supposing that I'm "embarrassed" or "trying to justify moral failings".

fourteenwings wrote: »

This isn't an issue of fancy things, it's very simple, and you're pretending otherwise.

I don't know what you mean by fancy things, but you're basically just saying "Cross Ange contains morally objectionable content" while apparently(?) trying to tell me that my appreciation of the show for reasons beyond said content is "pretending it's not there" just because I'm not concerning myself with the moral objectionableness...which wasn't even my original point anyway.

Like, seriously, if you'd left this at "visual language is extremely important" I could agree with that and I'd say that's a reasonable take on it. But now I don't know where you're going with this.

fourteenwings wrote: »

For example:

My point was that if I draw the line on anything sexual, I end up putting Cross Ange on the same side as Yona.

However, this is rather different from "pretend[ing] it's not there".

It's not, it's the same thing.

How are those two quotes "the same thing"?

glennmagusharvey · 2020-08-01 16:10:03

The irony of this is that I've spent part of my time on MAL arguing with a few people who are a big fan of sexual fanservice and complained about my ragging on it.

fourteenwings · 2020-08-01 16:10:09

trying to tell me that my appreciation of the show for reasons beyond said content is "pretending it's not there"

I have no problem with your appreciation of the show, but waving certain aspects of it off tells me you're trying to elevate it by erasing parts you don't like.

Basically: "I love Cross Ange, but man those bits were weird."

"And also it's not like Yona really."

Like, I really liked Machine-doll, but half of that anime was just the main character having Yaya and Charlotte fall all over him (more Yaya than Charlotte). A lot of the times those scenes were actually funny, too.

I can't say "Machine-doll, which existed like [this] is now like [this] because I feel like it."

How are those two quotes "the same thing"?

I bolded the bits I was talking about!

Also your post is a giant quote.

fourteenwings · 2020-08-01 16:16:02

complained about my ragging on it.

A lot of the shows I like, unfortunately, could not exist without the fanservice engine. I guess it's like wrestling, when people pretend it's not fake, but with anime girls and never wanting anybody over your shoulder whilst you're watching it.

I mean, Z/X Code reunion was just an excuse to pair a few girls up in yuri-esque circumstances and dress them in skimpy looks that get more revealing with each power-up.

But that allows for lots of cool friendships, a somewhat unique story and lots of fun stuff in general.

However, that anime is not getting made unless they guarantee they can get lots of ota staring at the screen and forgiving all the mediocre animation work as long as they get a few racy QP;flapper art shots.

And Ange Vierge was like Z/X Code reunion on steroids (and better plotting/animation, somehow). That's one of my favorite shows of all time.

glennmagusharvey · 2020-08-01 16:32:47

I fixed my post; sorry about that.

I have no problem with your appreciation of the show, but waving certain aspects of it off tells me you're trying to elevate it by erasing parts you don't like.

In my genuine opinion, I think Cross Ange has an amazing, very gratifying, strongly inspirational story. In fact, I have to tamp down my emotional reaction to it when I talk to other people about it because I know other people are more likely to find the content objectionable and dislike it, so I at least have to preface by mentioning that context.

So, rather than "erasing the parts I don't like", I'm actually "adding back in the parts I don't like".

Also, Cross Ange and Yona definitely share a number of similarities, particularly in their premise, though obviously they are very different shows beyond that. And even beyond the visual presentation -- for example, one of the most interesting aspects (in my opinion) of Yona is its moral ambiguity (I could go into far more detail in spoilers), and that is a key feature that Cross Ange does not have -- even though this difference really is not apparent until maybe about halfway or further into the show.

Also, I don't see how pondering where to draw the line or feeling that drawing the line on visual fanservice is shallow constitutes "pretending" that the content in question "isn't there".

glennmagusharvey · 2020-08-01 16:53:46

And yeah it's unfortunate that a number of those shows probably wouldn't get made if not for the fanservice.

Naas_Human · 2020-08-02 04:25:11

Why would "drawing the line on visual fanservice" be shallow? Fanservice (when it's recurring enough) has gotta be one of the most obvious indicators of why the show was even made.

fourteenwings · 2020-08-02 05:43:24

^Well yeah, this.

I don't even know how to explain it to you beyond this. It doesn't matter what anybody feels, it only matters what was greenlit and for what reasons.

it's unfortunate

I don't know about this? It's like, if anything you should be grateful they figured out how to make the shows at all.

glennmagusharvey · 2020-08-02 13:27:31

Naas_Human wrote: »

Why would "drawing the line on visual fanservice" be shallow? Fanservice (when it's recurring enough) has gotta be one of the most obvious indicators of why the show was even made.

My comment was about the extent of the term "wholesome", not about why a show was made.

fourteenwings wrote: »

It doesn't matter what anybody feels, it only matters what was greenlit and for what reasons.

???

We're talking about TV shows here; how does it not matter how members of the audience feel?

fourteenwings wrote: »

It's like, if anything you should be grateful they figured out how to make the shows at all.

One could certainly take that perspective, though I don't see why it's necessarily a better perspective.

fourteenwings · 2020-08-02 14:02:09

Whatever is going on here has not even slightly approached becoming a productive discussion, so let's just let it go.

glennmagusharvey · 2020-08-21 08:15:46

When I was watching Coppelion, I was wondering what kind of real-life situation might result in a scenario such that there might be a devastating effect juxtaposed with some people who are immune to it for whatever reason.

While the idea as implemented (i.e. immunity to radioactivity) makes for good exploration in fiction, I haven't been able to think of a plausible way that might happen in real life.

Though, I did just now realize that the "some people are immune, for whatever reason" is a bit analogous to people who are asymptomatic carriers of this recent SARS-CoV2. Only this aspect is vaguely analogous though; pretty much all other setting details are (thankfully) not analogous.

glennmagusharvey · 2020-08-22 04:25:40

Here's what I got: [brackets indicate songs I recognized but couldn't connect to a series]

Meanwhile, a list of other ideas for PTW shows that this alerted me to:

Remember, the togglebox tag is "toggle", not "spoiler".

glennmagusharvey · 2020-08-22 05:28:07

I think I did more "normie" on this one lol.

regular text: my answers
parentheses: (I missed these)
asterisk: (I think I like this song)*

Stormtroper · 2020-08-22 05:35:50

Hell yeah, I had to wait almost fifteen minutes but I got the [ Hataraku Saibou ] one right!
Which reminds me that I saw and liked that show but didn't get around to posting about it here.
Besides that I recognized something like 8, and couldn't connect any to a series. I thought my experience with Nico Nico Douga's opening/ending crossovers would help me, but no. Besides the above, the only ones I had a chance of getting right were the [ Mirai Nikki, Soul Eater, Mandoca Mágica and Jigoku Shoujo ] ones, but I didn't.
Also now I know where the [ Elfen Lied ] melody comes from.

fourteenwings · 2020-08-22 06:40:46

Which reminds me that I saw and liked that show but didn't get around to posting about it here.

Oh that's good to know.

>dapperman comes in here to post TANGENT
>anime opening quiz

Foiled by GMH once again...

I did some of the first one:

fourteenwings · 2020-08-22 06:53:59

TANGENT

So, I have been an Aikatsu! Onii-san since the very start of 2nd Season (I watched the first season for a few weeks in the middle of 2nd Season). I have followed Aikatsu! like a madman, and my obsession and love for the franchise probably skyrocketed through Aikatsu! 4th Season and peaked during Stars!, I can relay hundreds of plot points from Stars! and most especially Hoshi no Tsubasa.

After Stars!, I wanted to take a break, but I didn't because How Could I and found myself enjoying Friends! (the anime), a lot, despite all the things I saw that let the overall Aidoru Katsudou down. Kagayaki no Jewel was really weird, but I can say I enjoyed watching it.

On Parade! was a great sendup of the whole franchise, and On Parade! Dream Story was a really fun little thing.

I've watched all the Aikatsu! anime, I've watched countless gameplay videos, and I've bought enough from the franchise to build a large shrine.

Frankly, it is part of me.

So, when August 10 came and BN Fes revealed that Aikatsu Planet! was going to be a live-action series, I actually went slack-jawed for two straight minutes. In all honesty, during this period of Kagayaki no Jewel and On Parade!, I've ramped up my consumption of gameplay videos.

Even if this part of the series doesn't have regular subbing (as I expect) I still intend to keep regularly watching gameplay videos, and familiarizing myself with the franchise overall. Whether there are raws or not, I'll be buying the BDs.

But... I don't know if I'm being realistic. In all honesty, the Aikatsu! anime may only be 30% of what Aikatsu! is (70% being the game), but it's my main entry point for the rest. I don't know if I'm going to just keep doing this because "It's Aikatsu!" and then one day I'll wake up and realize that, no, Bandai totally decided to do something I can't agree with anymore.

glennmagusharvey · 2020-08-22 07:13:25

That reminds me, I think there was a period of time when I was a kid that I basically defined myself socially and personally (in part) via Pokémon. I had a favorite pokémon, which also served as an online username of sorts, and I was also very proud of my choice of lineup with which I beat the game (without yet understanding that it was far from optimized), and I'd seek out people who knew Pokémon to chat with.

(Then again, that was the beginning of my using the internet. How else was I supposed to pick a screen name?)

It wasn't exactly paradise; I meant to catch all of the TV series's episodes but ended up having to miss a lot for a variety of reasons, between them being on at obnoxious times, to large numbers of episodes shown on Saturdays becoming a burden to watch. Eventually, I fell off the train and never really got back on again.

This is related to why I've been stuck on gen 2. I beat a gen 1 game, then got a gen 2 game, and that's when life started to get way too busy for me and thus it's still an unfulfilled promise of mine to play a gen 2 game. Perhaps I could have tried getting back on the train with Pokémon Go, or with the Let's Go games. But alas, I didn't.

fourteenwings · 2020-08-22 07:47:14

How else was I supposed to pick a screen name?

Be fourteen (before that I only really lurked in forums because everybody else always seemed so smart ie they had enough bandwidth to download multiple anime series weekly instead of waiting for it to be on TV).

Eventually, I fell off the train and never really got back on again.

I worry about people who get on trains as big as Pokemon and such and manage to stay on for years.

Says the guy for whom CG idol girls are part of his being.

I mean, I used to watch PreCure and Sentai pretty religiously before this, but those don't seem to require as much involvement as Aikatsu!, or maybe I just involved myself a lot more with Aikatsu!

Maybe this is my opportunity to wrench my consciousness back to some degree and engage with my primary hobby in a healthier way!

...

Nah~

Stormtroper · 2020-08-22 16:41:22

It took around a decade, but my interest in Touhou kind of subsided, I may be aware of it but I don't think I'm "following" it, e.g. a main game can get released and I might not find out for a good while.
Though I was never involved in any community outside lurking/expectating, the exception being the TVT thread.

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