IJBMer Updates

ClockworkUniverse

See, I was majoring in something game-design-related, but I hadn't programmed before, and it turned out that I suck at and hate it. And the major, which was presented as equal parts art and programming, is actually basically a CS major.

Vivi

I've never attempted. But Ive been told I have the eye for detail for both of these majors ;-;

RedEyedAbyss

I am amazed that anyone would go into game design and not expect programming to be the primary area of study. At the very least, it would be wise to get some experience beforehand.

ClockworkUniverse

I had fooled around a little.

And while I'd be okay with a major that was partially programming, they basically have me majoring in CS here despite their claims that it wouldn't be like that.

MadassAlex

I'm astonished about plenty of game industry stuff. Strictly speaking, game design doesn't necessarily entail programming from the literal position of game designer. A decent understanding of programming is a strong tool, mind, but, eh.

I'll leave it there. The game industry bugs me with its combination of potential and silliness.

Actually, I'll say this:

> educational institutes thinking a combination of coding and visual art equates to game design
> 2011

Vivi

-shrug-

It's a lot to think about. Games and movies are two very similar passions of mine.

RedEyedAbyss

Wonder what twit told you that. I'd imagine you'd have to be really, really lucky to be able to sit on your butt and just dishing out ideas to the people who do the actual work.

MadassAlex

Despite the similarities between movies and games, it's astounding how differently they're actually taught and studied.

I don't believe I've seen an example of a game course where things like narrative or pacing are studied, for instance. In fact, I don't think I've even seen one that covers the pre-production elements or, for that matter, actually designing a game. Christ.

^ Game designers don't program, but that doesn't mean they just dish out ideas and sit on their arses. There's the whole issue of pre-production, for instance. As a game designer, you have to pretty much put the entire game - mechanics and mathematics involved - on paper. Depending on who else is working on the project, you'll probably have to do some narrative writing for it, as well as working with every specialist on the project. That means you have to work with the programmers, artists, musicians, professional writers, producers, investors and all that.

Game design is creation, management and even business rolled into one. You have one very specific, creative duty and then a host of more minor but collectively more taxing ones. A game isn't just some ideas, code and artwork slapped together.

Malkavian

Which explains why so many games have the writing of fifteen-year-old fanfiction.

RedEyedAbyss

^^Well, thanks for clearing that up. Though I'd imagine that very framework would require some programming knowledge (if the player does this, then that happens. This action puts the player in this state. And so on).

ClockworkUniverse

Yeah, I get the basics of programming theory, I just make so many minor errors when I try to write code that it comes out as a mess.

Vivi

Uuuuuuuuuurg it sucks that I don't have the benefit of having the first two years to make up my mind.

RedEyedAbyss

^^The debugger is your best friend in that regard. Pretty sure no programmer could live without it.

To be honest, I don't get why media-based degrees are so popular. But then, that's why I'm in engineering.

MadassAlex

As I said, programming knowledge and experience is beneficial, but it's not ultimately the job of the game designer. It's beneficial because it helps the designer work against the challenges the programmers face alongside them. It also helps the designer, well, design around them in many cases.

ClockworkUniverse

Well, for me, I simply couldn't stand to do any job that wasn't creative for a long-term career.

Vivi

The combination of being creative and the potential for your work to get out there.

^this

MillerCross

"Wonder what twit told you that. I'd imagine you'd have to be really, really lucky to be able to sit on your butt and just dishing out ideas to the people who do the actual work."

dude, that's kinda what directors do in most cases.

"To be honest, I don't get why media-based degrees are so popular. But then, that's why I'm in engineering."

Because media is fun and easy to understand and deconstruct. And don't really rely on previous knowledge.

You can't say the same of many sciences.

RedEyedAbyss

I see. Though it's not like other degrees aren't creative, but I guess you wouldn't be too keen on the "means to an end" kind of creative that characterizes areas like physics.

I went with Engineering because I felt more like a practical kind of person.

^I personally think science is more fun in the sense of seeing the combined knowledge of how the world works accumulate, but again, that's my character.

Vivi

I just dread the thought of not having that kind of creative input into a long term career.

MillerCross

Sciences are creative, but they are relatively restrictive in comparison to media.

After all, sciences are really about solving problems and understanding the world around you, at its core. Not much liberty there. In comparsion to actually creating worlds and characters from scratch.

Vivi

Exactly. Thats what I mean. My life dream is to be a great cartoon creator but I can't draw. So moving on to the medias I can do

MillerCross

Drawing is like writing. Everybody starts drawing shit before they get to their masterpiece.

And it takes a lot of patience. Like all the arts.

Vivi

I don't think I have the patience. It's almost too late for me anyway. I start practicing now, I get good in ten years. What job will I have in between that.

MadassAlex

I've been investigating going into game design partially because I like the idea in general, and partially because my martial studies give me some extra purpose in that context. Games tend to be fighty, but combat systems are often very mashy.

Not that I mean to imply that games require accurate or complex combat systems, but it would be great to contribute to a game that dealt with swordplay in detail.

MillerCross

thank god i don't like games with swo--

>Devil May Cry

I now fear for Dante.

Malkavian

Dante's already been given an emo cut and hipster jeans. He can't be ruined any more. =/

MadassAlex

Man, if I ever got any creative control of combat in DMC, I *promise* you something mindblowing.

See, in most media, mindblowing fighting moves tend to be impressive, but easy to follow. In martial arts, someone who doesn't know what they're seeing is going to witness something like this:

- Two combatants
- ???
- Result
- I have no fucking idea how that worked, but now that guy has both swords and it was AWESOME.

For instance, some sword techniques create the illusion of one sword passing through another due to the speed and intensity of the technique.

Now imagine that kind of thing, but with CQC gun combat contributing. :333333

Vivi

I've also thought about being a dj and musician too. But I feel like it would take far too long to learn the ins and outs of music, make it, and get popular that I would miss the hieght of youth popularity

Malkavian

I just think proper sword technique is out of character for Dante. He's arrogant and a little lazy, plus he can take pretty much any killing blow like a flick on the forehead and then snap you're neck with a punch. He himself wouldn't see much use in polishing his skill.

Though maybe learning that use could make for good character development...

MillerCross

>Implying that to be a musician you need an understanding of music theory.

Dude, it's only guys like Solstace who really really really love music who do that.

@Madass_Alex: See, to be honest, that doesn't really attract me. I prefer to, you know, know what the fuck am i seeing.