Home ›
Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
If you have an email ending in @hotmail.com, @live.com or @outlook.com (or any other Microsoft-related domain), please consider changing it to another email provider; Microsoft decided to instantly block the server's IP, so emails can't be sent to these addresses.
If you use an @yahoo.com email or any related Yahoo services, they have blocked us also due to "user complaints"
-UE
If you use an @yahoo.com email or any related Yahoo services, they have blocked us also due to "user complaints"
-UE
Comments
That's not the anti-elven stance, though. Also, typing that sentence almost spontaneously made a pair of thick-rimmed glasses appear on my face.
I disagree. I think we could do with more stories that examine both ends of the spectrum, but I definitely do not think that we need many more stories that proclaim how awesome humanity is. It's basically the opposite of declaring how shit humanity is, and it's just as fucking annoying.
Also;
Actually, what data we have suggests human beings prefer mutualism to altruism.
That's not mutually exclusive to a preference for altruism over selfishness.
I think you speak of Doylist and Watsonian, refers to A. C. Doyle's Sherlock Holmes stories narrated by Watson.
Doyle, not Dickens.... man, now I feel like a tool. I shouldn't write posts when I'm in a hurry to go to a meeting, heh.
I dunno. I just don't like the smugness of 'human superiority' writing. Maybe it's just because I dislike any notions of arrogance and authority in general, heh. And to go on about how your own group (in this case own race) is oh so great is just... too easy. You're making things too easy and too comfortable that way. Actual criticism requires more thought, I think, and IMO hence also usually creates a more complex and dynamic setting. Plus, since the other races of sci-fi and fantasy don't exist, they generally represent "the Other", which is reinforced by the point that you'll still mostly find European-derived human cultures in fantasy and mostly North American crews in sci-fi. So you don't even need to have Races of Hats - even without that, human superiority is very easy to read as "own culture" superiority writing. And I mean, in attitude it's the same anyway.
On a more analytical level, away from my gut reactions, I think people need a reality check now and then. I mean, most of the time most people feel pretty good about themselves anyway. Which of course is something good, but still, this is hence nothing that absolutely needs to be reinforced. It makes us self-content. I grant you that media stating "absolutely all humans are evil" are unsophisticated and annoying, but if it's about human attitudes, human systems, human institutions - I don't think we should feel too comfortable about them. After all, those are things we encounter IRL, too. So, media that extols the virtues of human society in general might make us to content with our current, real societies.
And that's fair to suggest. It doesn't even matter if it's 100% true - humans as individuals are too complex for either notion to be 100% true anyway. And as to societies and how humans organize there, the said notion might even be completely correct. But that's irrelevant: What matters is, as I've said, the reality check. People not becoming too self-content or smug. There is, so to speak, no reason to write how good we are, but plenty to write how bad we are.
Funny, and yet the book was written in response to various similar stories, be it classical Robinsonades or children building up a society, which all ended in utopias. So you can't accuse the author of presuming to tell us how we are - he only reacted to other authors who did. And at least, he wrote with self-criticism, not arrogance. As far as I'm concerned, that's always preferable.
That's not true. There are hundreds of studies out there, and each suggests another thing. I particularly like the study showing that children will become less altruistic if they're rewarded for good behaviour. That suggests things are a little bit more complex than "humans tend towards altruism".
That's true in some cases, but so what? A description of human nature doesn't make human nature that way; human nature is what it is, whatever that is. What matters are the reactions. The logical reactions to "humanity is awesome" would be "all right, let's carry on then". The reaction to "humanity tends towards evil" would be "Well, time to fix some things".
Moreover, there definitely already is an overabundance of the former, IMO.
See I'd actually like to see data on this one way or the other. I mean between things like worrying about money for things like food and housing, social fuckery, family problems, accidents and illness and death I can see plenty of reason for most people to have a certain amount of anxiety and discontent in their normal lives.
Only nonhumans get to decide whether humans are awesome or terrible, and no horses or cats have yet expressed a verbal opinion on the matter as of yet.
>People not becoming too self-content or smug. There is, so to speak, no reason to write how good we are, but plenty to write how bad we are.
>The logical reactions to "humanity is awesome" would be "all right, let's carry on then". The reaction to "humanity tends towards evil" would be "Well, time to fix some things".
Are you perchance an Englishman?
In all seriousness, this presumes people read stories mainly to get moral lessons, are disproportionally influenced by them and all react the same to stories criticizing humanity. This argument skids close to the asinine 'it's entertainment, don't take it so seriously' sentiment, but people will read to be entertained. In this vein, SF&fantasy has an undertone of escapism. Its classical audience, nerds, are traditionally the social outcasts with shit self-esteem, so to a majority the simple good vs. evil in which the relatable everyman hero wins the day because 'hoomans r speciul'(thus awesomeness without work) helps perk them up a little. Which is fine: it's fiction. Don't end up like that one dude that saw MLP: FiM as a celebration of nazi values.
You mean don't end up as a twitter celebrity?
Seriously, how did that happen...
Oh believe me, I understand that this is not the case, nor even a good ideal. I mean, people need entertainment, making everything serious and dour would be catastrophic. I'd even say glorification of "capital L" Literature is just another form of arrogance. That's why I separated my reply to you into my own feelings and an analysis beyond that - while in my reply to Alex, well, he ideologized matters to a similar degree, so I answered appropriately
I understand it's escapism, but as for me, it's simply annoying. I mean, not only in a "that shouldn't be that way" way, but also as my plain emotional reaction to it. That's why I said a more critical tone towards humanity makes for more complex (and hence IMO better, but of course that's a matter of taste, too) settings. So to me, besides all my arguments, "humanity fuck yeah" simply also is not very entertaining. Then I rather take elven superiority
(though most ideally a balanced view avoiding both).
For the record, I hate elves because they're the pinnacle of everything that is wrong with green (Worst color, by the way) in Magic.
Fixed that for ya.
Surely that would be black with all the silly sacrifice things?
Oh come on. Red creatureless burn decks are funnest decks. Green is just big dudes + tons of mana. It gets boring on its own quite easily.
that's totally racist, black people don't sacrifice people >:[
I actually do dig Black lots. Sacrifice life for cards knowledge and big demons from hell? count me in bro
Black (and blue) have cheap creatures capable of regenerating for cheap. I like squishy walls.
Anyway...
It's because I hate fantasy racism that's why I prefer to just have one major sentient species in fantasy settings.
Blue/Black supremacy.
White is all you need for cheap creatures. I don't know if I settled on White/Red or White/Green years ago when I finished with Magic. I think it was White/Green.
(I've actually gotten pretty bored of elves)
Are we talking worst as in worst at winning games or most annoying?
Not all of its self-harming things are bad deals. Plus, it gets discard and the ability to make opponents sacrifice creatures if destroying things outright doesn't work. On its own, black isn't nearly as strong, but it's probably one of the best supportive colors in the game, and Blue/Black is one of the strongest color combos in Vintage.
Honestly, I think the real beauty of magic is that you get much more fun out of mixing colors than just playing monocolor decks (Albeit monocolor is totally viable, if somewhat boring)
You get more fun out of mixing colors if you can afford the manabases (or play some free online form of it, but that isn't the same).
The (weaker) dual lands aren't that expensive. It's mostly stuff like Shocklands and Alpha Duals. And anyone who uses Alpha Duals should be stabbed anyway.
Hell, even Shocks are pretty decently priced nowadays, thanks to RTR.
hahaha, tru dat, i s'pose.
^^ The shocklands' prices will probably go down significantly with Dragon's Maze, but they and other multicolor lands are still going to be much more than I'll want to pay for a land for a long time.
Look on the bright side: They aren't as expensive as Cavern of Souls.
I play white-blue. Can't say I'm a good player, but I like to set up my defences and send the flyers to do the job.
i play everything.
Thank Cthulhu for Cockatrice, man.
i play whatever deck i own irl, usually
occasionally modified with millercross's help
my favourite is my white/green deck
because aura-based deck yeahhh
man i haven't fucked with your decks in ages
i should do that more
(Fun fact: I actually have more decks from people who ask me to help them make their decks good than actual me decks)
eh
ever since cockatrice fucked up for me i basically lost my desire to play magic online anyway
I can see like 6 helicopters outside my window.
They're probably just news copters but it's still kinda creepy.
i'll fuck with your decks whether you like it or not >:[
(I meant other people's, but it's coolio)