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Comments
You're not trying very hard. If you want to stop posting, leaving the IJBM site for a few hours to a day is probably a good idea. You can exercise the self control to boot yourself off a site and let people settle down because you aren't giving fuel to the topic at hand right?
More than anything I'd ask you if you were and Edgar Allen Poe nerd.
Good idea, Crake. I'll come back tonight.
"if only so you can explore and discover why this is a problem on your own."
Note: this does not mean field research in bushes near playgrounds.
@Firebert: difficult to determine, perhaps something comparable as between Celsius and Kelvin?
As much as I want this to be over with, I can't help but feel that it's like a civic duty for me to write up a review of the events in this thread, but I'll do that later.
Right now, we're basically going in circles. I won't ban him, for the moment (though now that INUH's back, if he still wants to after going through this thread, I won't stop him), but there's still going to be an evaluation by the mods if it doesn't come to that. And that doesn't hold true to just Draven. Well, I might still ban him.
^^Why the fuck does America still use Chagens? All the civilized world moved to Dravens in like the 19th century
Scientists use JimProfits to measure drama, just saying.
The exchange rates are pretty fair these days, at least.
Well now wasn't that a (not so) nice way to spend a Saturday morning?
Indeed.
So yeah, I'm not actually liking the fact that anything with porn is being removed because some decent works are being thrown out with the bath water
It's certainly unfortunate, but apparently the P5 board is going to try to rectify the matter soon enough. (And Triple Elation's on the board. I missed him.)
^ Is that the "Council" (I hope they get suitably impressive robes and hats)? Well, I think Komodin's involved and he always seemed pretty sound. The others I don't really know.
^ It is. The "official" name is really long, but it basically boils down to five or six "P" words, hence the P5 (or 5P).
I really should start waking up earlier. I always miss these drama-ramas. Then again, it probably would have been hard for me to stay civil and not devolve into frothing-at-the-mouth rage.
Anyway, does anyone know what people this 'Council' are made up of? And weren't they formed just because the site was getting in hot water with advertisers?
I remember that Komodin, Discar and Triple Elation are on it, but the other two I cannot recall. And yes, while all this ultimately comes down to a complaint being lodged against the site via Google, the measures are not superficial: For better or worse, Fast Eddie is pissed about the presence of some of this stuff on his site.
The other two are Martello and Catalogue. It's nice because Martello doesn't put up with pedoshit and Komodin moderates the Sonic Wiki (which you know has got to be a horrible job).
Ugh, okay, that was embarrassing for all of us, mostly him. So, back to business.
Does the Media Tropes domain get updated as often as the TV Tropes domain does? Like, do we get edits and additions from like 3 months past and that's it, or is it all up to date?
Well, look what I slept through.
Draven kept digging himself deeper and pretty much revealed that he didn't have a firm grasp on his condition. If nothing else, claiming that there wasn't a problem was the biggest indictment of that.
On the other hand, I really think everyone here could have handled it better, too. No matter what, no-one is going to react well to being socially dogpiled and shamed. That kind of argumentative tactic doesn't work because people will behave to save face rather than actually discuss and analyse their problems. A less aggressive handling might have shown Draven some reason rather than putting him on the defensive and bringing up drama with no positive outcome for anyone.
At this stage, I don't disagree with the banning, but we ended up there because Draven was feeling attacked and pressured into defensiveness by trying desperately to keep some kind of link to TV Tropes. That kind of reliance is unhealthy in itself, but at the same time, we could have done much better and influenced some kind of positive outcome.
For instance, trying to ensure the guy seeks therapy? Totally agree with that. Except this thread pressured him into that socially, and now that he's banned, he has no reason to seek that therapy out. And yeah, pedophiles should certainly not take a casual approach towards their affliction, because it's a serious thing, but this kind of reaction is what makes them feel isolated as well. The more pedophiles are alienated and isolated, and the less they get psychological help, the more often children get raped because there was no controlling factors in place. I imagine being socially and psychologically disconnected from others makes it much easier to engage in questionable activity.
The bottom line of this is that, while Draven said some stupid things and certainly should have re-examined some major factors of his affliction, this thread bullied him into submission and then he was banned. That's not the way to constructively deal with this kind of issue, because pedophiles need socialised structures and limiting factors to keep them chained to reality -- and what they could lose if they act on their urges. Criticism of his perspective? Absolutely fine, and given his additional comments, I wouldn't blame a soul for it. But there was a point where it stopped being so much constructive criticism and became social shaming. And we should never argue on the basis of shaming people, because it accomplishes nothing. Instead, we should focus on why they're wrong from a point of view of both reason and morality without attacking them.
Essentially, the idea should not be to break someone down, but to show them a stronger alternative of a more empowered self. People will avoid being broken down, but they'll often willingly chase the image of a better self.
Check the activity page. There were a lot of reasons for banning him, some of which he'd previously been warned about.
I do feel like the general reaction was a bit over the top, but I stand by the ban decision. If anything, we maybe should have done it sooner, or just no let him in at all.
All the name calling and the "lol I'll pay you in Chagen Dollars" talk was real bad form, though.
I thought we handled that adequately, if anything I think more than a little venom was called for.
I'm not against shaming him into seeking help (because I don't really know how else we could really do it; if we're too friendly, he might think we'll accept him in spite of a repulsive worldview), but the bit with Chagen dollars was too far.
I'm particularly ashamed of InsanityAddict, Firebert, and nohaynicklibre, and disappointed, if not surprised, at Cygan's aggression (as she predicted).
I took her signature to heart the minute she put it up there.
^^ Hey, now.
^ Cygan's? "kind of dumb so ignore me"
I should stop posting in threads where I have nothing to contribute.
Those references probably went over his head anyways. Heaven knows this board isn't equipped to deal with another problem poster whose issues are a black hole that devours all attention. Might as well have some levity if he digs his own grave.
Besides, the bro said his parents knew and cited still living with 'em as a reason not to see a therapist. A message board can't fight back against such an enabling environment.