Mass Effect

ClockworkUniverse

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/116438-BioWare-Co-Founder-Promises-Closure-For-Mass-Effect-3

"Exec Producer Casey Hudson and the team are hard at work on a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey," he continued. "We're working hard to maintain the right balance between the artistic integrity of the original story while addressing the fan feedback we've received. This is in addition to our existing plan to continue providing new Mass Effect content and new full games, so rest assured that your journey in the Mass Effect universe can, and will, continue."

It sounds like they're probably going to go the indoctrination route.

Forzare

Awesome.



Maybe now people will stop whining about the goddamn endings.



(AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.)

ClockworkUniverse

People are still whining about the Fallout 3 and Halo 2 endings :P

DYRE

You know, if the ending of a game is so bad that they actually have to create DLC to retcon it, then complaints about it are probably justified.

Forzare

^^ Yeah, but when they fixed the ending, it seemed like most people forgave it. :P


^ It's not the fact that people are complaining at all that bothers me. What bothers me is the sheer amount of rage, and how it's all anyone ever talks about. Up until those last five minutes, Mass Effect 3 is an excellent game, and it wouldn't be fair if it was just remembered as that one game with the terrible ending.

ClockworkUniverse

^That. Also, if you buy the theories about it, I'd call the ending excellent too. Actually, if the player indoctrination theory is true, I'd go as far as to call it one of the best moments in the medium.

DYRE

Well, I haven't played the game, and I never will, so I don't really have the appropriate context for it, but it seems like even if that theory were true, it still wouldn't be a very good ending because it was conveyed extremely poorly, as evidenced by the fact that people aren't even sure if that's what actually happens.

ClockworkUniverse

I dunno if being obvious to everyone can necessarily be a criterion for an ending's goodness...especially since in this case

Spoiler:

the point of the player indoctrination theory is that a large part of the audience will take the endings at face value, despite an absurd number of plot holes that just vanish if you assume Shepard's being indoctrinated. This leads a large portion of them (statistically, I think more than two thirds) to deliberately spare the Reapers despite being outright told not five minutes previously that that's a stupid idea and that the Reapers will just kill everyone anyway.

Forzare

Plus all the evidence/foreshadowing throughout the game, so it isn't as though it would be coming out of nowhere, if it's true.

ClockworkUniverse

Waitaminute. I just thought of another one.

Spoiler:

In the last dream, the one after taking down Cerberus and exposing himself to a bunch of reaper tech, doesn't Shepard see himself burning along with the boy?

Forzare

Spoiler:

Indeed.



Veeeery interesting.

ClockworkUniverse

Spoiler:

Incidentally, my friend who just started the game apparently cried when the kid "died." Telling her he's actually Harbinger will be interesting.

Forzare

^ Heh.

Spoiler:

I've been thinking a bit about the apparent disconnect between what the devs have been saying and how the game actually is, and I think it lends some credence to the indoctrination theory.



Bioware said that you wouldn't be an "A, B, C" ending. Of course, at the end, there's the three-way choice that has everyone angry, saying that our choices didn't matter and that Bioware lied. And if you take the ending at face value, that's true. Mass Relays being destroyed means everyone is either stranded, dead, fucked, or some combination of the three depending on how cynical you are. But if Indoctrination theory is true, your choices really did matter. Wrex and Eve are still leading a race of cured Krogan to a better future. Quarians and Geth are living together on Rannoch and rebuilding. None of that is invalidated if the relays aren't destroyed.



The problem, I think, is that where fans considered the last ten minutes as the "ending," Bioware considered the entire game as the ending. So when you convince the Quarians and Geth to stop fighting, Tali takes off her mask and looks over the planet, and you hear reports of reconstruction, that was meant by Bioware to be closure on the Quarian story. But since we don't see anything at the very end of the game, people were upset.



Or I could just be tired and talking out of my ass. Either one, really.

ClockworkUniverse

Spoiler:

The problem, I think, is that where fans considered the last ten minutes as the "ending," Bioware considered the entire game as the ending

Spoiler:

I'm in agreement there, and was even before the indoctrination theory came up.

Hmmm...I just thought of something. Back in a bit, I need to go pixel hunting in Youtube vids.

ClockworkUniverse

Spoiler:

HA! Confirmed it!

If you look very closely as Harbinger lasers Shepard, you can see that someone does in fact appear to make it to the portal thingy.

Also, Shepard wakes up closer to it than when the laser hits, despite clearly being knocked back by the blast.

Forzare

^ :O

Unrelated, but too adorable to not share:

ClockworkUniverse

Aww.

Forzare

Spoiler:

Have you been able to find any Harbinger voice clips in the game?  Cuz I still haven't.

ClockworkUniverse

Spoiler:

No. And my friend is past the Turian homeworld mission and hasn't seen even one Reaper speak.

Forzare

Spoiler:

Somethings were pointed out to me that I found interesting.  Everything Shepard sees in the hallucination is reminiscent of somewhere she's been.

The run to the conduit (debatable whether it's Hallucination, but still) is a lot like the run to the Conduit on Ilos, only without the Mako.

The room she wakes up in is similar to the Collector base.

The next room is like the engine room in the Shadow Broker's ship.

The room she confronts TIM in is reminiscent of TIM's office.

The choice room also has human writing even though supposedly no organic has ever been there.

Also, Harby is way OOC.

ClockworkUniverse

Spoiler:

I really doubt the initial run to the conduit is a hallucination. Doesn't really make sense to me.

The other stuff is all very well thought-out.

Though I'm not sure what you mean about Harbinger being OOC.

Forzare

Spoiler:

One of Harbinger's biggest traits in 2 washow smart he was. (For a villain).



Shepard kills a reaper? He sends the collectors to murder him. It works? That's not enough, so he does everything in his power to acquire Shepard's body and make sure.



He's smart about trying to kill Shepard through 2. First the trap with the Collector ship, where he makes the trap tempting enough to guarantee that they'd set it off. Then the IFF ambush, would probably could have worked if Shepard was onboard.



tldr: He's smart, and he's thorough.



Then, in Mass Effect 3, after he lasers Shepard, he just... leaves. He doesn't make sure no one else runs for the conduit. He doesn't make sure Shepard is down for good. He doesn't even notice Anderson, who makes it through after Shepard pretty much unscathed.



This is not the Harbinger we know. The Harbinger we know would have lasered Shepard until she's dust, and then made sure the conduit was safe. Or at least to make sure she didn't stick around to hobble through. As awesome as Marauder Shields is, he'd want to make sure himself.



Also, Harbinger likes to yell way to much to not even say a word at the end. :P

ClockworkUniverse

Spoiler:

Good points.

I can think of one reason the Harbinger we know wouldn't kill Shepard :P

Forzare

Spoiler:

Yup.



And that ties into why you get different options at different EMS.



Low EMS, it doesn't matter. Your fleet is so small that you don't really pose a threat, so Harbinger doesn't bother trying very hard to indoctrinate you. Which is why all you get is Destroy.



As your EMS gets higher, it starts making Harby nervous, and he starts trying harder and harder, which is why you get Control and Synthesis when you have a huge fleet.

ClockworkUniverse

Just saw an abbreviated summary of the series:

ME1: "Reapers?"

ME2: "Ah, yes, 'Reapers.'"

ME3: "OH SHIT! REAPERS!"

Forzare

I feel like I've seen that before somewhere.



Lol'd anyway.

ClockworkUniverse

It's the new top comment for the ah yes reapers vid.

Forzare

Yep, that's it.

Forzare

Spoiler:

Also, has it been brought up in this thread that the chain reaction of the Relay explosions seems to start with the no longer existent Alpha Relay in the Viper Nebula, the place where, due to Object Rho, Shepard could have begun her indoctrination?



I theorized in the megathread on BSN that the galaxy map seen in the endings could represent Shep's neural pathways, and the brain either fully accepting or rejecting Indoctrination.



Would explain why the chain reaction starts in the Viper Nebula, it just represents the beginnings of Indoctrination.

Interesting thing to think about.

ClockworkUniverse

So, my friend who's playing was texting me about what was going on, and I got this message:

Spoiler:

I'm going to head back to the Citadel to turn in my sidequests and see the DAMMIT CERBERUS! WTF?

Also, I just thought of a problem with the indoctrination thing. The prothean hologram can detect indoctrination but doesn't detect shepard as having been indoctrinated. Though you could handwave that as the process still being unfinished. Not sure what to think about that.