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General politics thread (was: General U.S. politics thread)

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Comments

  • "you duck spawn, refined creature, you try to be cynical, yokel, but all that comes out of it is that you're a dunce!!!!! you duck plug!"
    Ahhhh, this reminds me of the old "steal your grandma's ID" action.
  • Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    An Iraq war vet responds to the frequent pro-gun argument that armed civilians can stop mass shootings: http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2015/12/3/1456501/-How-many-Bad-Guys-have-YOU-shot
  • "you duck spawn, refined creature, you try to be cynical, yokel, but all that comes out of it is that you're a dunce!!!!! you duck plug!"

    Oh, any by the way. Let's stop talking about the minutiae of silly political infighting, some people have real problems. Ones that actually are brought up in press an ocean away.

    http://www.mercurynews.com/animal-life/ci_29197607/warning-issued-after-squirrel-attacks-8-people-novato?source=pkg

  • edited 2015-12-15 05:45:46
    Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    Several really useful (and quite needed) ideas for improving voting in the United States:

    http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2015/12/13/1413566/-The-Voting-Rights-Act-at-50-Seven-reforms-to-protect-and-expand-voting-rights
  • >fines for not voting in an article with measures meant to help the disenfranchised
    >assuming minorities will vote progressive
    Solid otherwise, but these things rub me the wrong way, as if $20 isn't going to fuck some poor peeps among all the other little costs that poverty pile on top of each other, and as if there's no horizontal hatred that can be used by Republicans in order to pitch minorities against one another(immigration and fear of Islam would be prime issues to do this on, although frustratingly enough Google doesn't spit out prejudice breakdowns in the U.S. per ethnic group). 

  • edited 2015-12-16 16:29:04
    Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    >fines for not voting in an article with measures meant to help the disenfranchised
    >assuming minorities will vote progressive
    Solid otherwise, but these things rub me the wrong way, as if $20 isn't going to fuck some poor peeps among all the other little costs that poverty pile on top of each other, and as if there's no horizontal hatred that can be used by Republicans in order to pitch minorities against one another(immigration and fear of Islam would be prime issues to do this on, although frustratingly enough Google doesn't spit out prejudice breakdowns in the U.S. per ethnic group). 




    I agree with you.  The $20 fee isn't really necessary -- people already understand voting as a civic duty and an important thing.

    The main barrier to voting is lack of convenience, not lack of desire.

    Prepaid return envelope delivered with ballot by mail will be a major step in the right direction.
  • Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trumps-effect-on-muslim-migrant-debate-reverberates-in-heartland/2015/12/29/0fd05b4a-a818-11e5-bff5-905b92f5f94b_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_grandforks-335pm:homepage/story

    :( @ obnoxious clods being jerks to other people

    Also, someone should have pried the literal physical copies of Bjerke's documents from his warm, iving hands.  Then placed the Constitution on a table, calmly.  And placed the New Testament on another table, again calmly.

    Then taken out copies of various versions of the Bible, and the Book of Mormon, and the Quran, and various other religious texts, and them placed them side by side next to Bjerke's copy of the New Testament.

    And said, "This is how it should be."
  • edited 2016-01-08 22:46:49
    Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    And for somewhat more entertaining news: a look at the fail that's been going on in eastern Oregon, where some people swore that they'd have a final standoff against the federal government where they'd lay down their lives for...I'm not sure what, actually.

    http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/armed-pathetic-and-hungry-how-the-oregon-militants-revolutionary-plan-went-sideways-20160105

    http://deadstate.org/oregon-militiamen-turn-on-each-other-as-member-blows-groups-donations-on-booze-at-a-bar/

    Seems to me that said feds gave a quantity of fucks that is fewer than the temperature in Fahrenheit.  Possibly Celsius.
  •  "Yee-hawdists" in the service of "Y'all Qaeda,"

    lol
  • "you duck spawn, refined creature, you try to be cynical, yokel, but all that comes out of it is that you're a dunce!!!!! you duck plug!"
    I took a glance at a survivalist website, and it looks like even US militia types are rather unimpressed.
  • Love the puns, but it's a tad annoying how gleeful some smuglibs suddenly are for classist jokes, possible police violence and mandatory minimum sentencing (and this is how they get you to play their game). 
  • Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
     "Yee-hawdists" in the service of "Y'all Qaeda,"

    lol



    The internet turns out to be an excellent source for really shitty puns.
  • edited 2016-01-09 14:33:58
    Diet NEET
    >no Soros
    2/10, needs more paid protestor plod (never mind, it's in the comments)

    In all seriousness, I don't think anyone can into activism anymore without being co-opted sooner or later. It reminds of this piece (dunno where I scooped it from): http://libcom.org/library/give-up-activism NGO/full-time activist stuff is just way easier to get snagged up by moneyed interests.

  • edited 2016-01-19 07:04:32
    Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    How to tell people you are not running for any given position:

    Wrong ways:
    * I am focused on serving in my capacity as [current position].
    * I am not currently interested in running.
    * I am not running.
    * "The polling was amazing, but we came to the conclusion that we're just not seeing the money to do it."
    * I don't think I'll run.
    * I'm not interested in running.
    * I have no plans to run.
    * etc.

    Right way:
    * I don't want to run, I really don't want to run, and if you stick me on the ballot I will find every way I can to take myself off the ballot just so that I don't win, fuck you, go fuck off.
  • Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    i just realized something

    undertale's sans and john mccain look alike
  • Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
  • There is love everywhere, I already know
    *ahem*
    wth is going on with your primaries murica
  • Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    *ahem*
    wth is going on with your primaries murica




    the popcorn industry is especially pleased with their offerings this year
  • edited 2016-03-01 22:57:03
    Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    youtube.com/watch?v=qdlsAeu_n3k#t=2m31s

    Republican debates in a nutshell



    (also, Robotnik, who "loves this show", is a Trump voter.)
  • edited 2016-03-02 11:52:52
    Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    Here's the political position of various candidates at this point.

    Imagine that the United States runs on a train system.  This is a metaphor for several things rolled into one, but bear with me.

    This train system, as of right now, is an institution.  It is something that many people use.  However, it is also not working very well, or at least people feel it isn't working very well.  The trains don't run on time, there aren't enough trains, and for some people, the fares seem to be rather expensive and possibly rising too.  As a result, people regularly complain about the system, and some people are questioning the fundamentals of the system itself, and whether we should have one at all.

    On the Democratic side:

    Enter Hillary Clinton.  She pledges to fix the system, to make it work more efficiently, to operate more trains, to improve their timeliness.  She may very well be able to do at least some of these things, but the problem is, these aren't new complaints, and people are getting fed up with it.  She and people like her are able to fix some of these things, but the progress is slow and boring.

    Enter Bernie Sanders.  He says that the system is run corruptly and/or generally mismanaged, and in ways that don't serve the people.  He promises to thoroughly reform the system to put the people's needs first, rather than the needs of the system's owners/leadership.

    Meanwhile, the Republican establishment started by recognizing that the system needs to be fixed.  The trains need to run on time and there need to be more trains and the fares need to come down, yes.  But they, too, quickly discovered that progress is slow and boring.

    Somewhere along the way, some Republicans came up with the crazy idea that it might be a better idea to get rid of the system altogether.  And then some other Republicans realized this could be a useful campaigning tool.  So then Republicans started campaign on the basis that the system is itself a problem.  People complained about the system, and Republicans have responded by saying that the system is the problem itself -- life was better before the system was in place, and there are various people taking advantage of the system nowadays, either for personal gain or for malice against the rest of us.  So their argument is that the best idea is to get rid of it.

    Now the problem is that people actually find this system very useful, for entirely mundane and practical reasons, so the talk about getting rid of the system ends up being largely just talk, to appeal to the people who are really pissed at the system, validating their anger and encouraging it.  At the end of the day, when it comes to making policy, they can't get rid of the system, because people actually find it useful and regularly use it in their lives.  Moderate Republicans know this.  Savvy Republicans do the moderate position while maintaining the rhetoric of campaigning against the system itself.

    Problem is, those angry people, they weren't told that their anger was misplaced and they should prefer reform rather than scrapping.  They were told that their anger was well-founded and valid, and the system should be scrapped anyway.  And they're not going away.

    Enter extreme Republicans such as the Tea Partiers.  Rather than seeing opposition to the system as just a campaigning idea, they actually believe it's a good policy idea.  The complaints and anger have gone on long enough that they feel they need to upend the system to get some substantial change.  Because they actually believe their campaign rhetoric, they're better at appealing to the angry people.  The angry people are further validated, so they continue and further increase their anger, channeled toward opposing the system by their politician allies.  The more they perceive politicians as being two-faced jerks who appease their anger with token changes and then keep the system in place, the angrier they become.  And the angrier they become, the more justified they feel they are in their anger, as well as the more desperate they feel.  There is a vicious cycle that occurs here, where their politicians further validate these opinions by letting them fester and campaigning on them.  But there is one thread of practicality -- albeit one that is becoming thinner as the years go by -- in this which is that there is still a recognition that this system needs to continue to exist because there are other people who depend on and make use of it for their entirely legitimate day-to-day purposes.

    Enter Donald Trump.  He does not care about the system at all.  What does he say?  He says we should completely scrap the system.  He does not hesitate at all when he speaks of destroying the system.  He says he will make something better to take its place.

    The people who have been so angry at the system look to him, and see that he is validating their anger without reservation at all, unlike other politicians.  They call him a truth-teller and bluntly honest because of this.  He seems more genuine, because in a way, he is more genuine -- he only cares to fan the flames.

    Everyone else looks on in horror as Trump speaks of policy goals that involve destroying the system altogether -- the system that these people make use of and depend on for their lives.

    The truly principled ones recognize Trump as being a pied piper.  They see that he has little intention to actually fix anything, and does not mind destroying everything.  But his supporters are too consumed by anger to realize this.

    So here's the lay of the land right now:
    * Clinton: "Let's fix the system.
    * Sanders: "Let's fix the system really thoroughly."
    * Republican establishment: "The system sucks, so let's phase it out gently."
    * Tea-partiers: "The system sucks, so let's trash it, NOW.  Stop being so damn slow and screw you for sabotaging us."
    * Trump: "I'm gonna fuck all this shit up real good.  Now you watch me do it."
  • There is love everywhere, I already know
    well i'm pretty sure it's america's own fault for coming up with this whole "genuine seeming person"="this is the kind of politician anyone at all wants" nonsense
  • So, what about this Trump rally thing?

    Here's how I understand the sequence of events:

    -A number of people had gotten roughed up at previous rallies, with Trump actually encouraging it. This, for example;
    -Protestors showed up at this one to non-violently protest what Trump had said and continues to say;
    -There was a lot of animosity and tension, it looked like things would get chaotic;
    -Trump cancelled, and actual violence broke out, except this time it wasn't just the Trump supporters inflicting it, it was also the protestors.

    We've got people saying that the protestors are going too far by being violent. You know what? I'll consider that possibility, but after seeing how violent Trump people can get and have gotten without physical provocation, I'm having just a little bit of trouble putting the majority of blame for things getting violent on the protestors.

    Intellectually I know that somebody on either side could have thrown the first punch and that regardless of who it was, it's probably not fair to paint everybody on that side with the same "They're psychos who will beat people up at the drop of a hat" brush. Emotionally, it is more difficult for me to accept that. Emotionally, I'm more inclined to think "Protestors had gotten beat up and beat up and beat up, and now, finally, they're fighting back. Good."
  • edited 2016-03-13 03:29:26
    One foot in front of the other, every day.
    I can't help but sympathise with your position, despite having comparable intellectual conflicts with it. 

    Basically, I'm sympathetic to the protester's position of moral outrage. Trump is advocating for some abhorrent positions on several crucial matters, and now he has a cohort of people defending those positions. These matters concern the likes of torture techniques, xenophobia, economic policy, foreign policy, and military policy. Trump's positions have consistently been at odds with the ideals of a democratic (small "d") population, so I don't blame the protesters for feeling a form of existential threat from Trump and the degree of support he's amassed. For all the damage dealt to the US democracy by the far right (and to other democracies by proxy), Trump is essentially advocating the dismantling of enlightenment ideals that form the basis of democratic discourse. 

    Given that Trump has been courting violence throughout his campaign, and has overtly advocated violence on several levels on multiple occasions (largely to the approval of the cohort he's collected), I don't feel sorry about some injuries dealt. 
  • Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    There's always an open question in social conflicts, of whether one should remain a peaceful and innocent person or actually get involved in combat.



    When one is being threatened with violence, the latter seems perfectly reasonable.



    Kinda makes me think of Sans from Undertale.
  • Understandable, but I bet you it'd do Trump's campaign a good favour. He's the main one encouraging confrontation, after all.
  • Given that Trump has previously encouraged people to beat up protesters at his rallies, let's just say my benefit of the doubt is going to lie on behalf of protesters as to who started it.  This is a man who cites the First Amendment as a justification for protesters to be "thrown the hell out".
  • BeeBee
    edited 2016-03-13 06:16:44
    Also, this was amusing.


    Hillary's absurd "I don't know where Sanders was when I was fighting for healthcare in '93" is responded to with photographic evidence that he was literally standing right behind her at the time.
  • edited 2016-03-13 11:52:34
    Diet NEET
    Hypothesis on violence at rallies: Trump is more fringe, and thus will attract folks to them who already regularly clash at protests/get involved in fights. Not so much because "America is in decline and this is the only way to save it", but because fighting is a part of prole culture.

    Second, I think his rallies are more disorganized (see this type of shit: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/01/07/donald-trump-issues-20000-tickets-to-rally-in-venue-that-holds-1400-people/ ), which makes it easier for protestors to slip in and cause a fuss than at mainstream rallies. It's a symbiotic relationship: the protestors know they will be kicked out and have more footage of what a danger the man is, Trump knows the audience loves the spectacle of it all. 

    Of course, this dynamic does not describe all the participants in the play, but fringe politics used as a justification to get involved in fights and provoke a reaction to make the opponent look bad is nothing new, really. 
  • I hope you guys realize that being glad for politically motivated violence against random peeps from rival groups (even Trump supporters) kinda wears off after a while, and is in fact kind of a terrible thing.
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