General politics thread (was: General U.S. politics thread)

KilgoreTrout

^ Heh, that's crazy, and I'm not gonna lie, it almost makes me forget what an asshat Trump is while I'm watching it.

@Irdgck: Maybe "mentally ill" isn't the right label to apply to everybody on that side, but they sure have a mental block or something. This mental block causes them to ignore--to steal a movie title from Hillary's husband's old running mate--inconvenient truths.

It's like "My candidate's so awesome, she's a woman, and she's a Democrat instead of an evil Republican, and she tried to get health care for everybody when she was in the White House, and--"

"Wait a second, are  you forgetting how nastily she campaigned against Obama back in 2008? And if you don't like Republicans, then what about how similar many of her policies are to Republican policies? Aren't people mostly against the GOP because they got us into the Iraq War? Well, even if you give Hillary a pass on voting for that and assume she was tricked into it, what about all these other wars she's either supported or been directly involved in the execution of? And--"

"SHUT UP SHUT UP YOU'RE JUST SEXIST AND I BET YOU'RE A CLOSET CONSERVATIVE TOO LALALALALA I'M NOT LISTENING!"

Now to be fair, I think I have a little better understanding of this sort of thinking than I did a week ago. See, I've been resolved to vote for Jill Stein since she's even further left than Bernie. Some of her political positions include:

-Cutting the military budget

-Against fracking

-Was talking about how the Israeli treatment of Palestinians was oppressive long before Bernie started to

For a long time, everything I heard about her made her sound great. And everybody I talked to loved her.

Then, about a week ago, I saw somebody say "The Greens are anti-vaxxers." Really? I found that to be surprising if true.

"Still," I thought, "It's one thing. I've heard too much good about Stein to write her off over one thing."

Then, more recently, somebody else said "Jill Stein's against sex worker's rights" (this person is a sex worker, so it's a big deal for her) and provided a link. I looked, but didn't look closely. I figured unless Stein wanted to give people long prison sentences for prostitution (which, judging from a tweet in which she says non-violent prisoners who were arrested as part of the war on drugs should be discharged, would be out of character for her), then I didn't see it as a big deal.

But in retrospect, that's me being like these Hillary people who infuriate me so much. I've gotten so invested in believing Jill Stein is a rare good person in politics and would make a good president (don't get me wrong, I know she has no chance of actually winning, just speaking hypothetically), that it's like I do not want to hear criticism of her, even criticism which may be valid.

It's stupid. Not everybody's like that, but enough people are that they're incapable of real objectivity or informed decisions. Why are humans like this?

Serocco

Jill Stein actually pushed back against the anti vaxxers in her party, which pissed off several Greens.

Try to write a comment about how vaccines cause autism on her Facebook page. You'll get an instant ban.

KilgoreTrout

^ Ah okay, that's good then.

Serocco

"Saudi Arabia remains a critical financier of Al Qaeda, Taliban, and similar terrorist groups."



This according to Hillary Clinton, circa December 2009, when she was Secretary of State. WikiLeaks cables revealed as much.



https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/dec/05/wikileaks-cables-saudi-terrorist-funding



I'm honestly surprised she admitted it.

KilgoreTrout

She might have figured everybody would ignore/be unaware of how tight she was with them indefinitely.

glennmagusharvey

Anyone else here heard about Sen. Chris Murphy's (D-CT) filibuster for gun control reform?

Serocco

His filibuster forced the Republicans to hold a vote on gun control. He represents Sandy Hook and Newtown, too.



Also, those cables from Clinton detail just how involved the Saudis and Gulf states are in financing terrorists. The cables show just how aggravated the White House has been in private with the Gulf States.



Clinton joined Sanders in calling for Obama to release the 28 documents that detail Saudi culpability in 9/11 too.

Bee

Yeah.  Most of the country is behind most of the measures they're going for, for good reason, and good on the Dems for finally putting on their big boy pants and trying to shove it through.

I'm as dubiously ambivalent about the rage to ban assault weapons as ever.  Like, the AR-15 is a Big Scary Gun That Scares People, used by mass shooters specifically because it's a Big Scary Gun That Scares People rather than because of any unusual efficacy in a shooting situation, and is sought to be banned because it's a Big Scary Gun That Scares People rather than because of any unusual efficacy in a shooting situation.  Most of the rationale is along the lines of Senator de Leon's hilarious ghost gun speech rather than any consideration of how dangerous a mass shooter would be compared to bringing lighter weapons more suited to the close quarters they're planning to be in.  Then again, most of the people who want to buy AR-15s tend to be the kind of loudmouthed nuts I'd rather not be armed to begin with, but you can't exactly write policy by halves.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/07/politics/transcript-obama-town-hall-guns-in-america/

I felt this town hall presentation last January was really, really good.  A lot of good points on all sides, a few weak points on most sides, and so much love to Anderson Cooper throughout.  It's an issue with a lot of nuance, even when most of what's being proposed is shit we should've had in place for years, and I like seeing it discussed that way.

There's another Q&A he did more recently that was also really good (EDIT: here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvBh2FQRkSs, with the relevant snippet here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6imFvSua3Kg).  Much as I dislike Obama, he's nailing it on this issue.

Serocco

If we can get just a background check, that'd be fine. It's a half-measure, but at least we would be able to look back on future potential shooters and figure out their problem.

ANY gun control at this point is preferable to no gun control. At least, on this issue, Clinton is better than Sanders.

glennmagusharvey

Incumbent congresswoman defeats Chuck Norris in primary election

http://www.denverpost.com/2016/06/28/diana-degette-seeks-democratic-nod-for-congress-against-rare-primary-opponent/

lrdgck

*snicker*

glennmagusharvey

Very long play that they've been performing here since morning.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_Committee_on_Oversight_and_Government_Reform

It's now past 2 PM.

Spoiler:

(Said "play" is the Republicans grilling the FBI director because they didn't like his non-indictment of Hillary Clinton.)

Bee

I mean they'd probably have more excuse if the administration didn't prosecute more security violations, deliberate or not, than literally the entire rest of the country's history combined.

Honestly it probably didn't warrant criminal charges, but then neither did most of the people who weren't lucky enough to be named Hillary Clinton.  And it probably should disqualify her from holding an office that requires security clearance.

I'm not sure why the Republicans would want Hillary out of the race though (I mean I know, but I can't comprehend how vindictiveness takes that much precedence over thought).  If she was out, it would fall to Sanders, who polled better against every Republican candidate.

glennmagusharvey

An interesting commentary about Hillary Clinton.  No, not about her political positions, but about her style of governance and policymaking.

http://www.vox.com/a/hillary-clinton-interview/the-gap-listener-leadership-quality

TL;DR she is unusually willing to listen to people on a personal basis and work with them (even political enemies sometimes), and is very detail-oriented in her ability to give people credit and bring colleagues together.  This makes her a huge joy to work and interact with, though this approach results in her appearing a lot less snazzy and memorable on the campaign trail than someone who clearly enumerates a series of policy goals they want -- unlikely as they might be to actually happen.

lrdgck

An opinion freshly from the Internet:

Trump is ultra-incompetent, evil and crazy, Hillary too, except more evil and less crazy. Choice technically hard, as some say rock and hard place. But, dammit, when I think of it like of a choice between four years of Hillary memes vs four years of Trump memes...

I guess I prefer Trump.

BassFishing

It will be a golden era of political comedy, and Jon Stewart will return to the Daily Show to co-host with Trevor Noah. On second thought, if he does become Prez I hope he opens up those libel laws so we never again have to suffer smuglibs.

glennmagusharvey

lrdgck wrote: »

An opinion freshly from the Internet:

Trump is ultra-incompetent, evil and crazy, Hillary too, except more evil and less crazy. Choice technically hard, as some say rock and hard place. But, dammit, when I think of it like of a choice between four years of Hillary memes vs four years of Trump memes...

I guess I prefer Trump.

The problem with this thinking is the following question:

"Is a meme still funny if no one laughs at it because everyone has died?"

Stormtroper

Yes.

vandro

It is even more funny.

glennmagusharvey

In any case, tonight was boring.  Donald Trump spoke, but didn't insult anyone new.  He didn't even go off script.  A heckler was dealt with in a very typical fashion.  Other people also spoke, and none of them were booed off stage.  No one tried to invoke the Salem witch trials either.  I guess we just have to wait to find out whether any of them plagiarized someone.

glennmagusharvey

So it turns out that Trump praising Putin is indeed not just a thing but a bigger thing than just Trump liking Putin.  Trump's financial empire was backed by Russian money, Putin turns state media on for Trump, and a former Yanukovych aide is now Trump's campaign manager (Paul Manaforte).

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/trump-putin-yes-it-s-really-a-thing

Zennistrad

Trump is now openly calling for Russia to hack the U.S.

glennmagusharvey

Damnit Donald, we're not done being outraged by the forty-nine thousand, nine hundred, and ninety-nine other offensive and obnoxious things you've done.

(Seriously, where're them tax returns?)

Zennistrad

His campaign has stated he won't release his tax returns, IIRC.

glennmagusharvey

What I meant to ask was "why aren't all y'all bugging Trump more consistently about his failure to release his tax returns, as opposed to being distracted by the shinies?".

BassFishing

>not calling for domestic hackers 
I thought he was against outsourcing jobs to foreign countries. 

glennmagusharvey

BassFishing wrote: »

>not calling for domestic hackers 
I thought he was against outsourcing jobs to foreign countries. 

You don't get points for finding inconsistencies anymore.  You only get points for finding consistencies.

Meanwhile, I'm hearing that Republicans confused the Blue Star Service Flag -- which Dem VP nominee Tim Kaine wore as a lapel pin because his son is deployed -- with the Flag of Honduras.

fourteenwings

Trump is now openly calling for Russia to hack the U.S.

It was really the Ukraine. /nobodywatchesMadamSecretary

glennmagusharvey

A federal judge has stepped in to halt county-level gerrymandering in North Carolina: http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/education/article87107697.html

Hispanics in Florida are increasingly leaning toward Democrats:
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/03/09/democratic-edge-in-hispanic-voter-registration-grows-in-florida/
this includes even historically Republican Cuban-Americans narrowly going for Obama over Romney in 2012: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/06/24/after-decades-of-gop-support-cubans-shifting-toward-the-democratic-party/

glennmagusharvey

Also, Donald Trump just threatened assassination against Hillary Clinton.  Or against any judges she appoints.  Either way it's still assassination.

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/8/9/1558390/-Trump-floats-Second-Amendment-remedy-against-Hillary-Clinton