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When people act as if you're an idiot for believing in a god/goddess/Flying Spaghetti Monster

135

Comments

  • captainbrasscaptainbrass

    ^ I think Gelzo has a point though. Intelligent design is basically a theory that was dreamt up by fundamentalist Christians as a counter to evolution. Personally, I think they were misguided to think that they needed it to defend religion, but that is basically where it came from.


    I think the basic problem here  on both sides is people failing to realise that you can dislike things as long as you're not a dick about it. Both Christians and militant atheists have frequently been complete dicks about the other side. That's the crux of the issue. 

  • IcalasariIcalasari
    No rainbow star
    ^ Yep. Respectful debate is fine, but when you dismiss the ither person for simply being on the other side of the argument is when it's a problem
  • OctoOcto
    I don't even call it violence when it's in self defence; I call it intelligence.
    Why not? What evidence do you have that religion has ever caused an evil act rather someone's innate sinfulness?


    What evidence do you have that religion has ever caused a good act rather somone's innate goodness?

    Not that it particularly matters. The morality or amorality of religion is not the point here. What is the point - well, the parody religions like the spaghetti monster or the invisible pink unicorn sum it up: If what most religions espouse weren't religious views, we would justly ridicule them. So how is it any different that they are in fact religious views? Religion should have to justify itself the exact same way as philosophy, sociology or economics.

  • MalkavianMalkavian
    MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!
    >Implying Philosophy, sociology, and economics don't all have things in them that are often heavily ridiculed that people believe anyways.
  • OctoOcto
    I don't even call it violence when it's in self defence; I call it intelligence.
    So?`What's your point?
  • MalkavianMalkavian
    edited 2011-12-24 13:14:09
    MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!
    What's yours? You can't concretely prove philosophy or sociology or economics either. Even science depends on how we perceive it.

    So it's trading one blind faith for another.
  • OctoOcto
    I don't even call it violence when it's in self defence; I call it intelligence.
    Science is just blind faith?

    Yeah... no. Just no. That's just not true. Science is the exact antithesis to dogmatism, i.e. belief.
  • MalkavianMalkavian
    edited 2011-12-24 13:20:13
    MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!
    and yet see how you dogmatically cling to pithy cliches about it the same way a fundamentalist would. Fascinating.
  • ClockworkUniverseClockworkUniverse
    OOOooooOoOoOOoo, I'm a ghoOooOooOOOost!
    -_-
  • glennmagusharveyglennmagusharvey
    Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    Okay, I hope that tensions have eased since this thread got a templock.  Try not to do that again.  Both of you.

    By the way, economics is relatively provable on its descriptive side.  There are some general principles that do tend to be true.  Though how they work in practice depends on all the little details, and an ideal perfectly free market with perfectly identical goods and perfect information on all sides sadly does not exist in real life.

    That said, on the topic itself: Yes, belief is not "scientific" in terms of its provability.  It falls into the realm of things that you really can't answer objectively.  Like, you can't either prove OR disprove whether one or more deities exist.

    People postulate beliefs, and that's not something you can get around.  You can argue with a religious person for hours, days, weeks, years, and you will never find a satisfactory answer other than that they postulate that at least certain tenets of the religion they follow are true.

    It's not about proof.  It's about faith.
  • BeeBee
    it is nothing but a big double edged sword

    The solution to which is typically to learn to swing it so you don't cut your damn foot off.

    Religion inspires people to believe things that are not true.

    Mmm, Pratchett.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    The solution to which is typically to learn to swing it so you don't cut your damn foot off.

    If we're gonna play "Run metaphors to the ground" then I will just say that when it comes to religion and blah blah, it is not only a double edged sword, but a double edged swords swung by a man who doesn't understand the difference between left and right. :p
  • BeeBee
    I'd be willing to say that of a rather small minority of the religious.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    I'm not talking about religious people. I'm talking about the concept of religion in and of itself. 
  • Wicked223Wicked223
    We Played Some Open Chords and Rejoiced, For the Earth Had Circled the Sun Yet Another Year
    All I'll say is, it makes no sense whatsoever to say that a person who starts a war in the name of God would still have started the war if they'd never heard of God in the first place.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    Not all wars started in the name of God are fought by believers, you know.
  • MalkavianMalkavian
    MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!
    It does though. The crusades were actually about resources in the east.
  • Wicked223Wicked223
    We Played Some Open Chords and Rejoiced, For the Earth Had Circled the Sun Yet Another Year
    A war that was started in the name of resources wasn't started in the name of God, though.
  • MalkavianMalkavian
    MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!
    So then it's okay?
  • Wicked223Wicked223
    We Played Some Open Chords and Rejoiced, For the Earth Had Circled the Sun Yet Another Year
    No?
  • MalkavianMalkavian
    MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!
    So we've established that wars are bad ans will happen with or without religion.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    A war that was started in the name of resources wasn't started in the name of God, though.

    Who says that a war starts only because of one cause?
  • Wicked223Wicked223
    edited 2011-12-24 20:15:10
    We Played Some Open Chords and Rejoiced, For the Earth Had Circled the Sun Yet Another Year
    Okay sure. Does that also apply to acts of charity and goodwill that religion also "causes"?

    That's really my problem with the "religion doesn't cause behavior" argument: no one ever applies to good actions, and if you don't do that, all you've actually done is express a really annoying form of religious privilege. 
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    Honestly, my problem with the religion causes or doesn't cause behaviour is that it acts as if religion was the only cause for...a lot of things. When it's not.
  • MalkavianMalkavian
    edited 2011-12-24 20:22:46
    MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!
    ^^Sure it applies there but religion inspires enough people to do good things that it's worth keeping, same as Soccer, Video games, and the Beatles. It brings out the good and the evil out of people.

    It's folly to say the world would be better without religion. 

    Also, I don't believe you understand what religious privilege is.

    ^Yeah, that. 
  • Wicked223Wicked223
    We Played Some Open Chords and Rejoiced, For the Earth Had Circled the Sun Yet Another Year
    Also, I don't believe you understand what religious privilege is.


    By all means, enlighten me.
  • MalkavianMalkavian
    MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!
    Bitching about people saying Happy Holidays = Religious privilege

    Making sweeping statements about atheists = religious privilege

    Acting as though losing certain the ability to discriminate is opression = religious privilege

    assuming everyone you meet is your faith = religious privilege

    not blaming a vast and expansive vague term like 'religion' for what evil people do =/= religious privilege
  • Wicked223Wicked223
    We Played Some Open Chords and Rejoiced, For the Earth Had Circled the Sun Yet Another Year
    not blaming a vast and expansive vague term like 'religion' for what evil people do =/= religious privilege


    Assuming that religion is a force for good = religious privilege.
  • MalkavianMalkavian
    edited 2011-12-24 20:34:30
    MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!
    Nope.

    One can believe something has had more positive impact on people without having an innate bias out of privilege. Sorry.
  • Wicked223Wicked223
    We Played Some Open Chords and Rejoiced, For the Earth Had Circled the Sun Yet Another Year
    Yes, you can. Doesn't mean that's what ends up happening.
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