Being bugged leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to Banishment: Malkavian and Star Wars

Forzare

I'm just saying that there's things that I didn't like that could have been much better if they were handled more competently or in a slightly different direction.

MillerCross

It's still a story that has great ideas that are bogged down by terrible performances and terrible writing. 

Yes, it's supposed to be an old sci-fi serials' homage, but that doesn't mean that it can't be a fascinating or unique story.

Now get off your damn dinosaur and review more movies, slave.

Malkavian

I have a hard time not seeing it as a unique story (what with the trade routes) and I think if nothing else, nerd rage has proven there's plenty worth talking about. 

Having recently also seen the Green Lantern film and Fantastic Four (not to mention Trans 3 a few months ago) it mystifies me how anyone can say that the prequels are worse films or bigger insults to the fans. Episode 1 alone clearly sets out the character arc for Anakin and actually gives us reasons to think he is special beyond just being the Chosen One and the action scene are actually fun and engaging. 

In any case, I might watch Episode 2 later tonight.

DonZabu

I like Phantom Menace best out of the prequels. It has more personality to it than the two films to follow, even if, by itself, it's still kind of lousy.

MillerCross

I have a hard time not seeing it as a unique story (what with the trade routes) and I think if nothing else, nerd rage has proven there's plenty worth talking about. 

Eh, I used unique just because using fascinating on its own sounds weak.

Anyway, my point is simply that this is a story with ambition and with great intentions for the franchise as a whole (Basically, it's the backstory of the most iconic villain from Star Wars and maybe even film)

Of course there is wasted potential. That plus expectations makes a fanboy raeg.

Having recently also seen the Green Lantern film and Fantastic Four (not to mention Trans 3 a few months ago) it mystifies me how anyone can say that the prequels are worse films or bigger insults to the fans. Episode 1 alone clearly sets out the character arc for Anakin and actually gives us reasons to think he is special beyond just being the Chosen One and the action scene are actually fun and engaging. 

Those movies were expected to be horrible from the get go (GL because of the bad CGi, the rather meh story and because the history of DC adaptations, FF because it was a sequel to an already weak film that was there just to put Jessica Alba in a tight suit and Transformers 3 because Michael Bay)

Not only that, but these films never aimed for anything but being shitty popcorn films with a lazy plot and pretty explosions.

Whereas Star Wars was both the prequel to one of the most succesful trilogies in the history of film, one of the most popular stories of the twentieth century and a movie that aimed high in concept from the get-go, intending to shift thematically and retroactively the theme of three previously established movies.

And it all falls down because Lucas didn't ask anyone to even proofread that shit. 

(It also helps that Star Wars is a far more popular pop culture property, because, let's face it, almost everyone has seen the original films, but how many people read Green Lantern or care for Transformers beyond their childhood series which they care only in a nostalgic sort of way?)

Malkavian

Like I said, it's because of expectations and it's been more than a goddamn decade and people need to grow up and stop comparing George Lucas to Hitler for movies that are just mediocre. 

Icalasari

^^ In other words, the bigger they are, the harder they fall?

MillerCross

Not just expectations, but because of intentions. A movie's artistic success is measure by how it does whatever it aims to do.

Transformers aims to be dumb and spectacular. It does that

Star Wars aims to be an in depth look at Darth Vader. Does it do that?

therein lies the question. 

ETA: And yes, nerd rage is dumb. Who da thunk it? Geez, I'd expect you of all people knew better than this.

Malkavian

I disagree with you that Transformers succeeds on any level, even spectacle. Transformers fails on every level of narrative and visual storytelling. Even with one of the most bloated special effects budgets I can never tell what the hell is going on. 

As for the prequels giving an in-depth look on Darth Vader. It does that. Oh lord, does it do that. It's just that doing that didn't make for a really great movie. Vader as a kid was never going to be cool. 

Icalasari

This makes me wonder:

How long until George Lucas gets the idea for making Episodes 7-9?

Malkavian

George Lucas is pretty much done with Star Wars.

For the kids it's that Clone Wars cartoon anyways.

Schitzo

My main raeg with the series (as far as the films are concerned) is that they are S-Rank B-Movies. In other words, B-Movies with merit.

The prequels are JUST B-movies. And not particularly entertaining ones.

MillerCross

I disagree with you that Transformers succeeds on any level, even spectacle. Transformers fails on every level of narrative and visual storytelling. Even with one of the most bloated special effects budgets I can never tell what the hell is going on. 

Maybe spectacle is not the word I'm looking for, but basically, Transformers is about explosions and scale. It delivers on the explosions. But it also attempts to do humor and it fails ridiculously there. It also attemps to do action and it fails because Bay likes his shaky cam. 

As for the prequels giving an in-depth look on Darth Vader. It does that. Oh lord, does it do that. It's just that doing that didn't make for a really great movie. Vader as a kid was never going to be cool. 

While it's relatively deep compared to the original trilogy, i'd say that "dude does everything for a girl" is rather...not deep.  His whole character revolves around Padmé.

I understand that the story is about a man letting his own impulses betray him and ultimately becoming what he hates for the sake of saving his one love, but it doesn't come across as that because all of his impulses are "What would Padme want me to do?"

I don't think the prequels are particularly horrible, mind you, and I'd even argue that Revenge and Phantom are worthwhile movies, but I still think that they're not forgivable within the frame of what they aim for and what they are. 

MadassAlex

The OT did create expectations on its own, and the PT very much failed to live up to them. Remember that the original story is very simple, and efficiently told. The core cast is pretty small. It retains great focus throughout. On the other hand, the PT lacks that level of focus and exacerbates matters by throwing in confusing politics. I had no idea what a "trade federation" was when I was 9, and I doubt many others did either. So there's a pretty obvious rift between what George Lucas wrote and his target audience, but that's only one example. For instance, most of the morality is black and white for the kids, but Lucas is clearly trying to create a story with shades of grey for the adults. This doesn't work whatsoever and ends up alienating the adult audience.

The PT isn't completely terrible on every level, but it's still pretty poor. There's no focus and it seems to me that George Lucas had small understanding of what he was writing. As much as I think the neckbeards should lay off the PT a bit, I don't think those films should get away with their horrible elements either. Compared to films as simple and brilliant as the OT, they fail to stack up, big time.

Myrmidon

Jar-Jar Binks was my favorite character as a kid.

MillerCross

^^ This, basically.

Malkavian

They're definitely confusing messes and unfocused as hell, but in the case of Revenge I actually think it works to its credit and I'll get to why later. 

And quite frankly, the original trilogy isn't as tight as people like to remember with the exception of Empire. I'll have fun with you disavowing me after I review Jedi, because even in my teenage years I remember growing somewhat wise to how slapdash that movie was.

MadassAlex

Jedi isn't as tight as it could be, as a whole.

Everything to do with Luke and Vader sure as hell is, though. That's what I really watch that film for.

MillerCross

Yeah, Jedi is a rushed ending and it shows, definetly. From the easy solution to the conflict against the empire to the Rebellion final battle being won by outsiders, it's throughly lazy, in comparison to the Luke arc which gets a magnificent conclusion, in my opinion.

not only does Luke learn that being a jedi is not as easy as swinging a sword and manipulating people with their mind powers but also he manages to reach closure with his father in a legitimately sad and beautiful way.

I honesly think that Luke's character arc from farmboy to full fledged jedi is one of the best character arcs in film. And it is my favorite, at least. It's sad that it tends to be overshadowed because Han and Vader are far more iconic and interesting at first sight. 

I actually think that Revenge is a legitimately well written film. And in fact, in a way, I think it works perfectly on its own and it doesn't need the other two films to tell the story it intends tell. Of course, this is not entirely true due to the political intrigue part, but I feel that the characters could be easily introduced here and you wouldn't be lost.

Or at least, that's how I felt when I watched it (It was my first Star Wars film, actually)

MadassAlex

> Juan
> saw Revenge before OT

what has science done

Malkavian

That's less science and more time, Alex. =P

On another note, while I'm using this thread to bash things that aren't Star Wars, Enterprise and Star Trek 2009 are both more 'betrayals' of their precursors than the prequels were, but people loved the latter because 'SULU'S GOT A KATANA MAN!'

I mean I enjoyed that movie for what it was, but it sure as hell wasn't Star Trek.

MillerCross

I was nine when it was out and couple of friends invited me. I had no interest in Star Wars back then because the other two movies in the trilogy never seemed too interesting to me. 

Of course, when I saw that Revenge was episode III I had to look for I and II. And after that, I heard there was this thing called "Original trilogy" and hunted those down.

Colombia, everybody!

^I liked it precisely because it wasn't Star Trek. I never cared for the Enterprise crew in either installment, DS9 is a meh Babylon 5 (Won't call it clone because it isn't one) and Star Trek Enterprise is just a prequel.

And, as this thread attests, Sci-fi prequels is just slang for "Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad idea"

Malkavian

I notice you forgot to mention Voyager.

Not that I'm complaining.

MillerCross

I forgot Voyager existed, actually.

Make of that what you will.

Malkavian

Also, if you don't like Star Trek, that's fine but surely you'd agree a film that lacks the series' mood, feel, morality tales, western influences, and ruminations on humanity shouldn't be called Star Trek?

MillerCross

I never disagreed with the idea, no.

Myrmidon

Star Trek Voyager was indirectly responsible for the Obama administration, though.

MillerCross

And that's a good thing, how...?

Myrmidon

I withhold judgement.

Malkavian

^^Well, we don't have a McCain administration.