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(nicer this time) Sexism

24

Comments

  • CounterclockCounterclock
    Belief
    "the plot made the Bride a pregnant woman who was shot on the day of her
    wedding. She was the one who set out to seek revenge. Thus, a character."

    Not really, she was a plot device to killing bill.
  • MalkavianMalkavian
    MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!
    Be honest.

    Do you think words are going to resolve anything in this thread?
  • SchitzoSchitzo
    They're somethin' else.
    -watches Clock and Juanito verbally duke it out-

    I hate it when you're right.


  • MoeDantesMoeDantes
    no longer cuddly, but still Edmond
    Do you think words are going to resolve anything in this thread?


    I actually thought Clock and Juan were having a pretty interesting discussion.

    Here's an idea: If you're not interested in the topic, stay out of it.
  • MalkavianMalkavian
    MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!
    The topic does interest me.

    The bullshit circular logic and people talking past each other does not.
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    The bullshit circular logic

    May you please show me an example?
  • MoeDantesMoeDantes
    no longer cuddly, but still Edmond
    The bullshit circular logic


    The guy who once ended a DBZ debate by literally saying he wouldn't even acknowledge any aspect of canon that disproved his complaint has no right to call out other people's "bullshit circular reasoning."
  • MalkavianMalkavian
    MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!
    ^^Circular logic was the wrong word, but essentially I was talking about the 'those aren't characters they're plot devices' cop out.

    ^


  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    Okay, that makes more sense. Carry on.
  • MoeDantesMoeDantes
    no longer cuddly, but still Edmond
    'those aren't characters they're plot devices'


    And... what exactly is wrong with this argument?
  • IcalasariIcalasari
    No rainbow star
    I notice a lack of males being mentioned

    A work can also be sexist if the males aren't written right either
  • ChagenChagen
    [tɕagɛn]
    Indeed, the very fact that that factor has not been brought up at all is in itself sexist.
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    Or we just assumed that everybody would pretty much think of that themselves and didn't feel a need to bring up males as well?

    I'm pretty sure everyone here knows that it holds just as true when applied to males as well, and I didn't really feel a need to bring that up considering.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    Circular logic was the wrong word, but essentially I was talking about the 'those aren't characters they're plot devices' cop out.

    Explain.
  • NoimportaNoimporta
    Why have the females characters at all if they don't do anything important.

    Why not?
  • ChagenChagen
    [tɕagɛn]
    And what should be considered important?

    People would call a female who stays on the sidelines and manages the logistics of the team and provides support with her own abilities to be sexist....even though she is vital to the team remaining cohesive.

    "Most sane people would say that men and women are equal...but few would dare to say that feminity is the equal of masculinity."

  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    Affecting the plot.
  • ChagenChagen
    [tɕagɛn]
    They affect the plot by letting the team go through and survive their confrontations. Who says a female character can't be a part of the plot while also being Mission Control/The Team Mom?

    I want to make a specific thread about this--there's a nasty double standard in this.
  • MalkavianMalkavian
    MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!
    Jaun: Kill Bill was a bad example. Clock pointed out this was a bad example and noted several characters that weren't useful. You then decided to go 'no true scotsman' and declare they aren't really characters, which they are. A genuine relationship is built between Pai Mei and the Bride where he learns to overcome his racism and sexism to favor her and Hattori Hanzo has the internal conflict of keeping his vow to never make another sword versus cleaning a mess he helped cause.

    Besides, we're not arguing writing quality. Just being good or bad doesn't make something sexist. (though being sexist can make something bad)

    The fact is there are barely any shows where all the males are useless. Even GRRL POWER shows like Xena had characters like Ares and Hercules. Buffy  has Giles and Spike. It's almost impossible to think of shows where men don't do anything. I can think of dozens where women don't.

    And that is a problem.
  • nohaynicklibrenohaynicklibre
    Kichigai birthday!!
    Not a show,but what about Touhou ? The only relevant males are a shopkeeper everyone steals from,a cloud that doesn't talk because he's shy and a turtle
  • MalkavianMalkavian
    MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!
    I don't know enough about Touhou, but from what I've seen it's one of those shows where it's all cute girls to appeal to men. That's a whole 'nother can of worm.

    Hey, guess what? Sexism issues are actually really complicated.
  • DonZabuDonZabu
    Which is why I don't even bother trying to keep up.
  • MalkavianMalkavian
    MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!
    This theard has it all figured out though. Clearly, with a convenient checklist of sexist/not sexist being followed media will automatically not be sexist.

    Won't decades of feminists and politicians have red faces that they didn't think of that.
  • DarkDecapodianDarkDecapodian
    edited 2011-09-30 17:11:38
    Clean your room little Billy

    ^^^ Sometimes it's complicated, other times it's just complexes.


    v This is true.

  • MalkavianMalkavian
    MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!
    Why can't it be both?
  • RedEyedAbyssRedEyedAbyss
    On a side note, it annoys me when men try to decide what's sexist and not sexist against women for, you know, women.
  • CounterclockCounterclock
    Belief
    Sexism has two targets y'know
  • DonZabuDonZabu
    ^^ Suppose a highly intelligent, perceptive man, and a generally dumb, ignorant woman, were to both offer their opinions on the subject. Which one would be more worth listening to?
  • AHRAHR
    edited 2011-09-30 18:19:01
    Sorry, Abyss. I trust Cakman's opinion on sexism way more than I do for the opinions of certain females. 

    (The fact that I helped mold his opinions, notwithstanding...)

  • RedEyedAbyssRedEyedAbyss
    edited 2011-09-30 18:23:09

    ^^Bad question. Intelligence does not determine your position on social issues or how easily you are manipulated.

    ^I guess I ought to elaborate. When you're not within a certain group, you can offer advice to the best of your ability (by of course listening and paying attention), but since you lack the experience within the group, ultimately any decisions should be made by people within the group. 

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