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The TVT Kingdom Hearts thread

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Comments

  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    edited 2011-08-29 23:25:42
    You can change. You can.
    Is not particularly difficult to understand at all.

    You just made a page that covers a whole page of my browser in order to explain the basic concepts of the mythology of the series.

    If that doesn't sound impenetrable to you, then nothing is. 
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    I feel that the concept of Souls was needlessly complicated and just brings another faction into the whole fray. A faction that is just as bad as the heartless except different cause they're white. The rest is pretty much the same. Except for the possibly intelligent ones.

    The concept of Souls has not been explored much, I will admit. However, the concept of a body, mind and soul, or in this case body, soul and heart, is not unique to Kingdom Hearts at all, and has been drawn from philosophy texts (or is it religious texts @_@).

    It is a problem with the series. The marketing of it is a characteristic of the series. As such, this is a problem of the series. It's just that it's a Doylist problem rather than a Watsonian one.

    Not really true, though. Marketing executives are representative of Square Enix as a whole, not of the story developers.
  • MadassAlexMadassAlex
    edited 2011-08-29 23:26:52
    One foot in front of the other, every day.
    It's just that it's a Doylist problem rather than a Watsonian one.

    I love it when you bring those terms out.

    May I ask what 'fracture' you're talking about? I mean, the story of it is going to be the same no matter the platform.

    The fracture is in the audience. Not everyone owns every platform required to play all the games, and many only own one or two. So the fracture goes both ways; firstly via those people who won't get to experience the next game and then via those people who didn't get to experience the previous games.

    What they could've done is made some of these entries purely stand-alone games with cameos from the major characters of the main games.
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    You just made a page that covers a whole page of my browser in order to explain the basic concepts of the mythology of the show.

    If that doesn't sound impenetrable to you, then nothing is. 

    I deliberately did that though, because it is cool to have a page that covers the entire browser page @_@

    I could have shortened it a lot, and just said something more along the lines of-

    There are three parts of you that make up your body in Kingdom Hearts- your Body, Heart and Soul, or your physical representation, your Impulses and lower thought functions, and your higher thought functions, each represented as a real, though not tangible, substance in-universe. Heartless are born of those lower thought functions when they are tainted by Darkness, and Nobodies are what is left behind when the Soul possesses the body left behind- a body left without the capacity to feel emotions and impulses.
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    The fracture is in the audience. Not everyone owns every platform required to play all the games, and many only own one or two. So the fracture goes both ways; firstly via those people who won't get to experience the next game and then via those people who didn't get to experience the previous games. 

    What they could've done is made some of these entries purely stand-alone games with cameos from the major characters of the main games. 

    I definitely agree, it is rather annoying and hurts people's understanding of the games.

    That is the fault of Square Enix's marketing executives, though, not of Nomura and the story developers- two distinct entities within the business.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    Not really true, though. Marketing executives are representative of Square Enix as a whole, not of the story developers.

    But our complaints are hardly just story related. At least, mine are not. My complaints are based on how the whole of Square has dealt with the series and rammed it into the ground for me. 
  • MadassAlexMadassAlex
    One foot in front of the other, every day.
    The writers and developers should've taken it into account, though. I mean, you don't just make a game and then choose the platform; you spend months or even years developing a game with a platform in mind.
  • MalkavianMalkavian
    MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!
    We're not blaming Nomura but in terms of how it reaches us a final product and obfuscates it, it does affect how we can experience the narrative.
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    The writers and developers should've taken it into account, though. I mean, you don't just make a game and then choose the platform; you spend months or even years developing a game with a platform in mind. 

    They did though @_@

    We're not blaming Nomura but in terms of how it reaches us a final product and obfuscates it, it does affect how we can experience the narrative.

    I guess that is so. I don't really have that problem because I own most platforms these days, so I can't really comment.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    The writers and developers should've taken it into account, though. I mean, you don't just make a game and then choose the platform; you spend months or even years developing a game with a platform in mind. 

    To expand on this, it should bear mentioning that most of the time the lead designer in video games projects, such as Nomura, tend to be quite influential in all stages of the creation of a game and, most importantly, within the company itself
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    Nomura has a lot of creative control, but within Square Enix? He does not really have a say in marketing decisions.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    Also, you can't pitch a game without specifying a console. That's...erm...part of the essentials. Of course, admittedly, different companies handle things differently.

    Not to mention that it's not like choosing the console of a game is a decision that it's just made by marketing. It can't be, as the console determines the human resources involved in the project, as well as the deadlines and a lot of decisions that hardly concern marketing.
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    It really is the execs though.

    It really is extremely stupid and I can't justify it in any way, but the execs told Nomura that they want to support multiple platforms on the series, from everything I find.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    Ah, that can happen. But again, this is still a problem inherent to the series. It's just not a problem inherent to the story of the series. (Which is again, imo, hardly the only flaw of the series)
  • MalkavianMalkavian
    MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!
    Again, I really think the games shouldn't depend on having played other games to be comprehensible.
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    Ah, that can happen. But again, this is still a problem inherent to the series. It's just not a problem inherent to the story of the series. (Which is again, imo, hardly the only flaw of the series)

    The story is what I am defending though.
  • MalkavianMalkavian
    MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!
    I think the story should have worked around the accessibility issue, though.
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    I think the story should have worked around the accessibility issue, though.

    It has not had to yet. Only vague hints has been dropped. Everything should be covered in 3D/KH3, at which point I'm imagining it will be tied together in an understandable way (while also being expounded on in other individual games).

    Like, the Roxas/Ventus connection I brought up yet is only relevant to the story of KH3. It has no bearing anywhere else, as far as I know, although I may have missed something.
  • LegionnaireLegionnaire
    >70 new posts

    tl;dr
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    good for you

    now why do we need to know this
  • LegionnaireLegionnaire
    edited 2011-08-30 07:15:50
    -shrug- You didn't.

    I miss anything important/worth discussing in the...15 minutes before I go sleep?
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    Nope.
  • LegionnaireLegionnaire
    Then I go to sleep.

    Mind you, before I do, am I the only one entertaining the possibility that Nomura will make a HD remake for the tenth anniversary as a way of giving non-Japanese people the Final Mixes/whoring the series out more?
  • AlkthashAlkthash
    I'm a damn twisted person
    Is the fanbase outside of Japan devoted enough to snap that stuff up?
  • ClockworkUniverseClockworkUniverse
    OOOooooOoOoOOoo, I'm a ghoOooOooOOOost!
    Really, my main problem with Kingdom Hearts is that it's probably why we don't have a sequel to TWEWY yet.
  • AlkthashAlkthash
    I'm a damn twisted person
    Bluh, the only reason people want a sequel for TWEWY is that silly bonus ending. Without that it's a perfectly self contained game.
  • ClockworkUniverseClockworkUniverse
    OOOooooOoOoOOoo, I'm a ghoOooOooOOOost!
    Personally, I'd want a sequel to TWEWY just because it's an awesome game.
  • AlkthashAlkthash
    I'm a damn twisted person
    Only if they actually refine the touch screen controls a bit more.
  • ClockworkUniverseClockworkUniverse
    OOOooooOoOoOOoo, I'm a ghoOooOooOOOost!
    I didn't really encounter many problems, myself. What did you find bad about them?
  • AlkthashAlkthash
    I'm a damn twisted person
    Generally kinda clunky. And there were lots of times where I would set off a different pin than the one I wanted.

    Plus the d-pad controls were another issue for me. You could attack with them, but positioning them was a pain.
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