I want to join Something Awful now

vandro

I don't understand shortening cygan to cygs, how is cygan even pronounced? or or [sai'gan] or [si'gan]?

MillerCross

It's "Sai-gan"

At least, that's how I pronounce it anyway.

And I dunno. I've seen a lot of times to adopt it myself.

vandro

you are still not saying where is the accent.

About the topic at hand, I admit that humor based on overblown stereotypes to be quite bothersome, so I was not keen towards criticism coming from SA, now I can see the points brought to the table by them. Also, it seems most people here agree that FE is a huge part of the problem, to those in that camp, exactly how would you deal with this?

AHR

Cygs = Sigs

The_Edge

Sorry, I am such a hypocrite for this, but don't start a username pronounciation derail again! Remember, SA, TVT, blah blah blah.

Nova

s-eye-gehn.

Elbeem

@The_Edge: No, you're totally right. My bad.

Stormtroper

I shall forever mentally pronounce it as see-gan.

The_Edge

Username pronouciations here

MillerCross

Also, it seems most people here agree that FE is a huge part of the problem, to those in that camp, exactly how would you deal with this?

To be a bit blunt, ballsier moderation. Moderation that dares oppose Eddie more often, that is. I feel at times as if the mods were Eddie's cronies rather than Eddie's "council", so to speak.

And either bring in a new admin (Or an old one, AKA Janitor) or Eddie stepping down from his post. He's far too unfit for the work, I believe. His wiki is infamously badly coded, and his decisions are just reactions to whatever trend pops up without any foresight in mind and he doesn't reverse them until the worse possible outcome has happened. Not to mention that he's authoritative when it's uncalled for (See: Yuri Genre Debacle) and he lets consensus rule when is also uncalled for (Troper Tales comes to mind, imo)

Also, he's unfair to any criticism, doesn't care for it, believes that anyone outside the wiki is just a "hater" and as such doesn't deserve to be listened to, and believes that problems will go away if you put it in a place where you can't look at them. (Again, Troper Tales)

The_Edge

^There are probably a number of real-life leaders he can be compared to at this point.

MillerCross

I prefer to make a point without obvious comparisons. Especially as they alway make your argument weaker.

---Pretentions monocle of snobbery-

The_Edge

Good point, not that it matters here or anything. Eddie probably should step down as the head guy though, or at least take some time off. Clear his head a little.

snowbull

Whatever happened to Janitor, anyway? Did she just drift away?

Elbeem

"Also, he's unfair to any criticism, doesn't care for it, believes that
anyone outside the wiki is just a "hater" and as such doesn't deserve to
be listened to"

While I can see where you're coming from for most of the rest of the post, I think this is going a bit too far since my post on the last page is entirely about instances where outside criticism has been listened to with changes enacted as a result.

vandro

If we assume some of the mods are cronies to eddie, and to be a mod you have to be at least, liked by him, then how could the ballsy moderation even come?

MillerCross

Challenging once in a while would be nice. But it almost never happens. I think I only saw it once, when Madrugada challenged Eddie when he went all "Shonen should be called Young Man Demographic" or something

Hell, I remember blackcat stepping out of debates where she disagreed with Eddie for whatever reasons I don't really understand.

While I can see where you're coming from for most of the rest of the post, I think this is going a bit too far since my post on the last page is entirely about instances where outside criticism has been listened to with changes enacted as a result.

There're exceptions, but you gotta admit that that really is the default. Not to mention that many of the times, he listens to criticisms after the damage is done (The whole worst possible outcome thing I mentioned in the post as well)

Elbeem

@Vandro: "About the topic at hand, I admit that humor based on overblown
stereotypes to be quite bothersome, so I was not keen towards criticism
coming from SA, now I can see the points brought to the table by them. "

Agreed. I'm all about fair, productive criticism. We've seen how it can work out back in December with the helpful Goons (Hi, Ninja_Orca!) who assisted with the Troper Tales debate, and a more recent example was Vicas' very well written post in this thread, that was mostly met with agreement and thanks.

It's when you're expected to dig through all the hyperbole and piss-taking to find the productive stuff that I take issue.

@Juan: In order for me to admit that it's the default, I would really need some more examples on issues where criticism hasn't been addressed. That was the entire point of my original post on the issue, actually. So far, instances where positive change has been enacted due to outside criticism outweigh counter-examples, from what I can see.

And like I said, I will concede that in many of those cases, change has come slower or been less drastic than many would like. But the issue I was addressing was numerous times I've seen it remarked that "TVTropes doesn't listen to external criticism."

MillerCross

I apologize for the double post, but someone replied to something I said and I feel like replying because why the fuck not?

However, I'm talking about people who want to have sex with children or animals. Neither of these groups can consent to sex, wanting to have sex with them is wrong.

The deal here is a lot complicated than that, but it boils down to this: Desire doesn't mean will to commit such an act. And don't acts speak louder than words? 

Anyway, as it is, that's where I'm currently standing, anyway. As long as any of the people here, furries or lolicons or whatever, don't act in such fashion and start raping all of the kids and animals of the world or something, I won't see them as a bad poster and as a moderator (If I were one, anyway), I wouldn't ban them unless they disturbed the peace and environment of the forum with said fetishes (I.E bringing them up constantly and without any sort of criteria whatsoever) 

I'm fine with people liking whatever they like as long as they don't hurt anyone. 

(I'm aware that Angrytech brought up a shorter reply, but I still think it would have been in good form for me to reply.)

^the handling of This Troper page, the Yuri Genre debacle which lead to another thread where we're trying (very, very, very slowly) to fix the Japanese naming problem and where Eddie has pretty much always gotten in a so-called "ignorant position" where he would switch the name of everything Japanese ever regardless of it being reasonable or not. 

And that's all I can think of for now

Elbeem

I don't know of anyone on TVTropes that has indicated a desire to sleep with animals, nor do I know of anyone who has expressed a desire to have sex with RL children who hasn't already been banned.

edit: I'm not claiming to be omni-present by any means, so I will concede that I could have missed something like that. But I do feel comfortable in saying that it sure as hell isn't ubiquitous.

Nova

This is not going to go well...

Nova

@ Mr Pumroy:

A lot of these people read Terry Pratchett's "Small Gods" and decided that believing in a god is like clapping your hands to make Tinkerbell live.

There's even a trope for that.

MillerCross

I think we'll cut down in the derail if necessary, but I recommend keeping a close watch in case something bad happens.  

And Namtab did it for me over at SA. Gotta love Namtab. He has some of the best posts there, imo. 

All Nines

@namtab: What Juan said, basically. DYRE's fetishes generally only come up when it it's on-topic (evilneko has been known to attempt loli derails, though. That I don't like, but she hasn't done it recently), and as I recall, he and evilneko both profess a dislike for real, live children because they look much different from anime children (and on that, I have to agree with them).

Wanting to have sex with actual children or animals should require heavy introspection (and probably therapy, if it is actually a -philia, by which I mean it's what they are most attracted to, at the expense of any other thing considered sexy), those two keep it strictly within the realm of fantasy/the impossible. And for what it's worth, DYRE usually, as I said, either says so on-topic, or he plays it up for comedic effect and/or horrible jokes.

And I'll stop contributing to the derail now.

GLORIOUSLeader

Of course, that doesn't make OTC any less of a shitpile. Even in comparison to other shitpiles. 

Vorpy

There are 4 people ruining OTC. Without them it would generally be a good place to discuss things.

MillerCross

Not...really. 

There's a lot more troubles to OTC than just problem posters. 

Vorpy

...such as?

GLORIOUSLeader

It being a liberal circlejerk, for one. I would say the majority of people who post there regularly literally cannot conceive of another viewpoint being possible.

Vorpy

Political Myopia? I don't know how you would even address that as a problem. People have political views, and a bunch of people who happen to have similar views are all in one place. It kind of happens. Unless they are all extreme liberals, which...doesn't seem very possible.